[GDT] Flames vs Dogs 7pm - The day the Flames started another winning streak

[GioforPM]

The folks who say Wideman's been dragging Brodie down are living in last season. Wideman's been an absolutely decent defenceman since the team started doing well. I dn't think it's chicken or egg in that regard, just a coincidence. He hasn't been caught out of position (no more than anyone else anyway) and his first passes are erally good. Plus he's been creating offensively with some well-timed rushes. his shot's been making it through as well.

Nope, Brodie has just been making bad decisions with passes and pinches. IMO that has almost nothing to do with the side he plays on. I also think his speed isn't what it was in the last couple years. It might be conditioning, or maybe mental, but over the last two year he had scary speed. He's still faster than the average guy, but I've seen some forwards pull away from him and he doesn't press up the ice as well.

[Bingo]

Yeah Brodie hasn't really had good underlying numbers with any partner this year.

Partner Minutes CF%
Wideman 254 44%
Giordano 137 48%
Engelland 120 44%
Hamilton 34 53%

Clearly the Hamilton pairing worked the best, but then Hamilton is always a positive. Hamilton has been with Giordano (257min), Jokipakka (138), Brodie (34 and Grossman (29) and is 56%, 50% 53% and 48%

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Nope, Brodie has just been making bad decisions with passes and pinches. IMO that has almost nothing to do with the side he plays on. I also think his speed isn't what it was in the last couple years. It might be conditioning, or maybe mental, but over the last two year he had scary speed. He's still faster than the average guy, but I've seen some forwards pull away from him and he doesn't press up the ice as well.

Don't necessarily agree with the second part.

I think he likes the off side, he's said he sees the ice better because he's open and not closed. Seeing is making reads, and bad reads lead to bad pinches and/or turnovers.

He could be just off this year because of personal issues, but he may too be struggling with a different vantage point that is messing with his decision making.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Since1984

The issue is not that Brodie is playing the natural left side, it is that he is paired with a terrible partner. He(Wideman) really drags down Brodie as he knows he can not take 85% of the risks he used to take while playing with Gio.

I can not wait till Wideman is off the books and we can get a mobile defenceman with some semblance of hockey IQ and ability to skate.

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Wideman isn't great but this notion that he's dragging Brodie down is so wrong. Brodie has been dragging down every defensive partner he's been paired with this year and that includes Hamilton, Gio, Wideman.

He just needs to play better. Wideman isn't making him turn the puck over multiples times a game or try the Hartley stretch pass mutilple times a game and have it picked off.

With what he's dealing with off the ice it's not a shocker he's been struggling but that's not because of Wideman.

Originally Posted by Bingo

Don't necessarily agree with the second part.

I think he likes the off side, he's said he sees the ice better because he's open and not closed. Seeing is making reads, and bad reads lead to bad pinches and/or turnovers.

He could be just off this year because of personal issues, but he may too be struggling with a different vantage point that is messing with his decision making.

The playing side for the D is not about the offensive zone. GG wants the D transitioning from their strong side from the D zone through the neutral zone.

But anyway, if the "correct side" is working for every other defenceman you end up screwing someone else up, who's less talented and less able to deal with it.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The playing side for the D is not about the offensive zone. GG wants the D transitioning from their strong side from the D zone through the neutral zone.

But anyway, if the "correct side" is working for every other defenceman you end up screwing someone else up, who's less talented and less able to deal with it.

I see it the most at the offensive blueline, but he also seems a little "off" in his work from the corner and in and around the Flames net.

I disagree on the last statement though; if you get Brodie back to being Brodie it's worth the decline from a lesser player to get that done.

[Jables16]

Probably the best possible scenario for the Flames after the last two games. Get out on the road where you can just focus on playing your game, not worry about entertaining the home fans, just playing the right way and winning the game. An opponent they should be able to beat, having done so twice already this year.

Interested to see how Elliott does, gotta think this is a real crossroads for him in Calgary. If he has a rough game we may not see him again for another 10 games and at that point is there really enough time for him to make a case that he should receive an extension here?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I see it the most at the offensive blueline, but he also seems a little "off" in his work from the corner and in and around the Flames net.

I disagree on the last statement though; if you get Brodie back to being Brodie it's worth the decline from a lesser player to get that done.

Except you mess up two other players. The only way this works is for Kevin to move up and play with Brodie (can't split Gio and Hamilton). Then you have two RH shots with Engelland and Wideman. One guy ends up playing off wing on the third pairing plus his partner has to play with an off wing partner.

Or you have Engelland playing offhand with Brodie (now you have two guys not playing the coach's system) plus Engelland is challenged at transition at the best of times.

And again, I really don't think Brodie's issues stem from him starting from the right side out of the zone. His latest issues are all, like you say, at the offensive blue line where he pinches badly, or tries to force passes. In other words, playing on the right side with Jokipaaka on his left won't IMO work out very well for the team or cure Brodie's issues. It worked when he had peak Gio to back him. Kevin isn't good enough to do it.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

And again, I really don't think Brodie's issues stem from him starting from the right side out of the zone. His latest issues are all, like you say, at the offensive blue line where he pinches badly, or tries to force passes. In other words, playing on the right side with Jokipaaka on his left won't IMO work out very well for the team or cure Brodie's issues. It worked when he had peak Gio to back him. Kevin isn't good enough to do it.

I do think it matters. I don't think he sees the ice the same way in and around his net. He used to be master and that "pull the puck towards him" move in the right corner, now he's in the left corner and doesn't have it. He gets hit more often and doesn't appear to see the ice as well on his backhand when he heads behind the net to the right side.

[FightinSioux]

Let hope Elliot can find a new grove and continue it post Christmas break!

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I see it the most at the offensive blueline, but he also seems a little "off" in his work from the corner and in and around the Flames net.

I disagree on the last statement though; if you get Brodie back to being Brodie it's worth the decline from a lesser player to get that done.

This. Getting Brodie back to form is worth far more than making sure some of the others are okay.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The folks who say Wideman's been dragging Brodie down are living in last season. Wideman's been an absolutely decent defenceman since the team started doing well. I dn't think it's chicken or egg in that regard, just a coincidence. He hasn't been caught out of position (no more than anyone else anyway) and his first passes are erally good. Plus he's been creating offensively with some well-timed rushes. his shot's been making it through as well.

Nope, Brodie has just been making bad decisions with passes and pinches. IMO that has almost nothing to do with the side he plays on. I also think his speed isn't what it was in the last couple years. It might be conditioning, or maybe mental, but over the last two year he had scary speed. He's still faster than the average guy, but I've seen some forwards pull away from him and he doesn't press up the ice as well.

There are two sides to this...

Wideman has definitely been playing better of late. But how much of that is due to Brodie? Yes, Brodie has been turning over the puck a lot, but part of the reason for that is that he is either trying to do too much, or he has no choice but to do too much.

If you watch film of Giordano and Brodie over the last couple years, one of the things they did really well was utilize each other, passing it back and forth, until they alleviated pressure. Once clear of pressure, they could move it up ice aggressively.

If you watch Brodie and Wideman now, you'll see Brodie trying to do it all himself, trying to beat 2 or 3 guys in the corner before moving the puck. Of course, that rarely works. However, on the occasion that he dumps it over to Wideman's side, bedlam usually ensues. Wideman just doesn't seem very adept at receiving that pass and moving it up - probably due to his deteriorating foot speed.

The fact is that the two of them are really having trouble moving the puck out of the zone, and there are multiple reasons for it:

1) Brodie isn't as effective on the left side
2) Brodie and Wideman are not able to utilize each other to alleviate pressure the way that Brodie and Giordano were.
3) As a result, Brodie isn't as confident using Wideman, and thus, tries to do it all himself too often, and usually fails.

IMO, Wideman is hurting Brodie AND Brodie is helping Wideman (because Wideman isn't the one with the puck so he isn't the one making mistakes).

But the bottom line is that it is a bad pairing.

[activeStick]

This is a pretty crucial game for Elliott to prove to himself and the team that he's still in the conversation as the team's long term solution. Will be interesting to see how he performs.

[Northendzone]

This is a huge must win game for the flames, the boys need the two points

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

1) Brodie isn't as effective on the left side
2) Brodie and Wideman are not able to utilize each other to alleviate pressure the way that Brodie and Giordano were.
3) As a result, Brodie isn't as confident using Wideman, and thus, tries to do it all himself too often, and usually fails.

IMO, Wideman is hurting Brodie AND Brodie is helping Wideman (because Wideman isn't the one with the puck so he isn't the one making mistakes).

But the bottom line is that it is a bad pairing.

I'll add 4) to this as well;

Read an article in the Boston Globe on the weekend about the "death of the D to D pass", and how the spread 2-1-2 forecheck has completely altered the breakout from a defense pairing scheme.

Perhaps Brodie was too dependent on the D to D pass and has had a tougher time adjusting.

The basics are that now a guy goes back to retrieve, uses the net as a shield and then speed to beat the first guy. If he can't he passes the puck to the front of his net where his D partner sits as the relief valve.

Just a thought

[PaperBagger'14]

Will be at the game tonight. Like any good Calgarian, I'm in phoenix for december!

[StrykerSteve]

Damn, game is on Sportsnet Flames, so I can't watch it from my hotel in Lethbridge.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

Damn, game is on Sportsnet Flames, so I can't watch it from my hotel in Lethbridge.

Sportsnet now should be streaming it. Just enter your credentials from your home TV service provider and watch it on your computer/tablet.

Lethbridge is considered part of the Flames broadcast region, so it should stream to you.

[hwy19man]

Centre Ice channels for:
Monday, December 19
Calgary at Arizona, 1900h/7:00 pm Mountain
Flames feed in red

Shaw Cable 350 SD and HD
Shaw Direct 167 HD--Classic lineup
Shaw Direct 467 HD--Advance lineup

Bell - 429 SD 1454 HD
Telus Sat - same as Bell
Telus Optik - ***

Rogers - Same as Eastlink
Source Cable - 457 461 SD 485 489 HD
Eastlink - 457 461 SD and HD
Cogeco - 457 461 SD 488 492 HD
Westman - 809 SD 823 HD
MTS - 838 842 SD 1838 1842 HD
Novus - 484**
Northwestel - 578 582 SD and HD
Videotron - NA***

USA
Indemand - Game SD9 Game HD9
Directv - 777 SD 777-1 HD
Dish - 580 SD 9548 HD Hopper Channel 475-08

Sirius Radio-- Internet 924
XM Radio-- Internet 924
SXM Radio-- Internet 924

[FBI]

Ouch Roger butchered that intro pretty bad.

[GioforPM]

Singer - ugly but good.