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Old 11-04-2016, 01:01 AM   #41
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That's a scary idea. Way more scary than any of the incidents. The idea that you know these people aren't responsible for their actions, but you want to punish them still. That's a society I don't want to live in. Thank God I don't.

Again, not commenting on this specific event as the specifics aren't out. But punishing a person who science says has no control over his actions for some sick sense of justice?
I can see where you are going but I must say seeing a 13 year old girl getting stabbed to death is way more scary for me.
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Old 11-04-2016, 01:14 AM   #42
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I can see where you are going but I must say seeing a 13 year old girl getting stabbed to death is way more scary for me.
Agreed with this. And sure, maybe we shouln't"lock" people up if they had absolutely zero control over their actions. However I don't think they should ever be in public again either, not alone. Sure it takes some of their rights away, but that's better than risking them taking someones life.
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Old 11-04-2016, 11:01 AM   #43
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Agreed with this. And sure, maybe we shouln't"lock" people up if they had absolutely zero control over their actions. However I don't think they should ever be in public again either, not alone. Sure it takes some of their rights away, but that's better than risking them taking someones life.
Another way to look at it, is that you're wasting resources on keeping someone with an extremely low chance of re-offending when you could use some of those resources to try and prevent another situation from happening.

Keeping someone incarcerated/under monitoring who has offended (control or not) is more visible than a prevention no one knows has successfully occurred. So that in itself is a problem in appeasing the public.


But... this situation...

Damn.

I could barely bring myself to finish reading the article.
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Old 11-04-2016, 11:06 AM   #44
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Agreed with this. And sure, maybe we shouln't"lock" people up if they had absolutely zero control over their actions. However I don't think they should ever be in public again either, not alone. Sure it takes some of their rights away, but that's better than risking them taking someones life.
What if they're medically cleared to be no more harm to society than anyone else, and are subject to the appropriate check ups to ensure their meds are in them at all times? Because that's exactly what happens.

Everyone thinks they know better than the justice system, that's just human nature in a country that properly focuses on rehabilitation, as human beings tend to focus on revenge and the feelings that go with it.

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Sure it takes some of their rights away
This is not a great thing to read. It's spoken very often and by many people and comes from people who live their whole lives in a (mostly) just and free society. The irony being that the freedom we live in is what drives people to desire less of it when we don't like the way freedom works in certain scenarios.
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Old 11-04-2016, 12:08 PM   #45
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Another way to look at it, is that you're wasting resources on keeping someone with an extremely low chance of re-offending when you could use some of those resources to try and prevent another situation from happening.

Keeping someone incarcerated/under monitoring who has offended (control or not) is more visible than a prevention no one knows has successfully occurred. So that in itself is a problem in appeasing the public.


But... this situation...

Damn.

I could barely bring myself to finish reading the article.
Even someone with an extremely low chance to re-offend has a chance to re-offend. And what's that chance and hows it quantifiable?

A large part of the justice system beyond rehabilitation and punishment is public safety.

To me if a pedophile rapes a kid and then is labeled as a low chance to re-offend, I still really don't want him anywhere near my neighbourhood or my kids.
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Old 11-04-2016, 01:23 PM   #46
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Even someone with an extremely low chance to re-offend has a chance to re-offend. And what's that chance and hows it quantifiable?

A large part of the justice system beyond rehabilitation and punishment is public safety.

To me if a pedophile rapes a kid and then is labeled as a low chance to re-offend, I still really don't want him anywhere near my neighbourhood or my kids.
What's the probability of you committing a serious crime. To you its zero, but I don't know you so to me you have a non zero chance of being a murderer at some point in the future.

Should I get to lock you up? How should I determine whether or not it's appropriate to lock you up.

What about schizophrenic people with visions who haven't yet comittted a crime? They probably are more likely to commit a future crime them a person found NCR and being monitored for treatment compliance. Should those people be locked up? Or possibly more rationally should they be montitored to ensure medication compliance?
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Old 11-04-2016, 01:27 PM   #47
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How about better mental health care so people with schizophrenia are more readily able to seek help. Obviously we can't just lock up everyone like in Minority Report but there's also growing mental health problems in society that are inadequately treated.
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Old 11-04-2016, 01:54 PM   #48
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Even someone with an extremely low chance to re-offend has a chance to re-offend. And what's that chance and hows it quantifiable?

A large part of the justice system beyond rehabilitation and punishment is public safety.

To me if a pedophile rapes a kid and then is labeled as a low chance to re-offend, I still really don't want him anywhere near my neighbourhood or my kids.
Per your example, such individuals are actually released into the public. They are under certain types of monitoring, have restrictions on where they can stay and need to declare that they are a pedophile to their community (I think). I believe monitoring in such a manner is a better use of resources than stuffing them in a room at a much higher cost.

In all seriousness, I agree with you. I wouldn't want such a person by my kids either. But there are also plenty of regular individuals I wouldn't want my kids around.

I also totally agree with your point about how do you quantify it? I mean, we can't quantify the risk of some of the regular people killing us on purpose or accidentally (which happens regularly, such as a traffic collision, drunk driving etc.) as much as individuals with mental illness randomly killing someone. Metaphorically, taking in someone with mental illness who has committed a crime is more similar to quarantine than actual incarceration. You let the person go once the risk has been mitigated. Unfortunately with mental illness, you can't completely "cure" it. Just manage it. In all seriousness on a topic that probably hits closer to home, do we incarcerate all individuals with PTSD as they are at risk to harm themselves and others? IMO, no. And I really hope we can find more resources to help those with PTSD (for instance) as well as any other mental illness.

There really is no clear cut win win option as you cannot appease everyone.

For the record, I don't disagree with you at all. I am merely saying that there are those who believe that if someone is low enough, they'd rather spend money to try to help 10 individuals with mental illness vs continue to lock up one individual who is of low risk to harm anyone else.

And overall? I'm pretty sure most individuals who say "release the guy" have a NIMBY perception as well. I really wouldn't want to share a neighborhood with some of these individuals either, rehabbed or not. Would I prefer him kept isolated from society? Selfishly, yes; even if the odds are probably higher for me to be attacked by some undetected individual with mental illness (likely due to there being more undetected than offending and rehabbed individuals out there).


But none of the above matters for those who have already been affected negatively by mental illness.

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Old 11-04-2016, 04:10 PM   #49
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I think in some cases, like heinous violent crimes, they should be punished regardless.
That's a ####ed up opinion from a lawyer.
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Old 11-04-2016, 04:11 PM   #50
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That's a ####ed up opinion from a lawyer.
I also said this:

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Well I'm also able to compartmentalize how I feel about things with what the law should be or is.
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Old 11-04-2016, 04:14 PM   #51
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I think in some cases, like heinous violent crimes, they should be punished regardless.
Vengeance should take precedence over justice as far as you're concerned. Just give you your pound of flesh regardless of the circumstances.
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Old 11-04-2016, 04:17 PM   #52
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I also said this:
Ha ha I didn't read down that far. Fair enough.
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