I don't think Bennett has the offensive ceiling that Gaudreau has. You see the skill and flashes Sam has. But Gaudreau shows those off literally every single night. IMO he's on a completely different level skill wise.
But Bennett will most certainly be the better ''overall'' package. When he fills out and starts to play the game he wants, he is going to be a beast. That is something JG won't even have a sniff at. I see Bennett as being an extremely versatile forward. He could play all forward positions, PK, PP and shoot outs.
I hope he can reach franchise player potential. But that's an extremely high bar to set for a player and really puts Sam in a position to fail if he doesn't reach those heights. However we don't need a franchise player. We need all players to be keys in the cogs and working together.
Bennett probably won't have a breakout season like Gaudreau did for at least a couple more seasons I figure. And salary cap wise that's probably a good thing. But when he finally puts in all together and reaches his peak, it's going to be a good one.
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I think the following is mandatory watching for anyone commenting in this thread. (Thanks SOOO much AC!). I've watched it like 10 times.
Quick comments from his 2015/2016 season:
- He had four goals called back. That's insane! At least a couple probably should have been goals...giving him 20 as a rookie
- Most of his assists were of the primary variety and were HIGH talent in my mind. He did all the work and the recipient just banged 'em in. Which leads me to
- His linemates SUCKED! Had he played with even one top-6 NHL talent during his huge draught at centre...you could have added 10 more points to his rookie campaign. How many highlights ended with Mason Raymond falling down or Joe Colbourne missing the net? Good that they were sheltering him in his rookie season - but MAN did he ever have to drive every ounce of offence himself. There was no help for him.
Off-Topic (somewhat) thought:
I was thinking (drooling) about the idea of Tkachuk / Bennett / Bouwer and was trying to think of another example where two pretty young players had success together. While their games do not really match styles...I quickly came up with Max Domi and Anthony Duclair from last year.
They were both 2013 draft-picks, so entering last year they would be of the vintage Sam is this year (with older birthdays). Two full seasons more mature than Tkachuk. I think Matt should probably go back to Junior...but the wildcard might just be Brouwer. Maybe with such an intelligent Vet on the line Tkachuk could last. Either way, by next year this line will happen and they'll be dynamite!
As far as draft pedigree, Domi was #12 overall and Duclair was #80 overall. And they put up 52 points and 44 points in their first NHL season together. Of course -> they weren't fighting for minutes with a true #1 line and another good middle-tier line, but there's the FLOOR for what I think those two could add to the Flames really really soon. (This year?).
As for the OP question, I have no doubt we have a 1a / 1b Centre situation on the Flames. I think Bennett will end-up being the 1a more elite scoring centre. He's an animal with elite skating and hands. Put me in the category that thinks Sam is a perpetual PPG player in this league.
There were times last season where he had to literally take the puck off his linemate and go score himself.
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Most of his production last year was playing on the wing with Backlund.
Frolik and Backlund are better offensive players than Grant, Granlund, Ferland, Hathaway, Colborne etc. Backlund is seven years older and more experienced down the middle than Bennett. That is not an argument that Bennett struggles at center. It's an argument that our winger depth is not as good as our center depth.
As far as his highest rate of production, it came centering Gaudreau:
1 2
This one in particular is a pure centreman assist: 3
He only got to have 73:21 of 5v5 ice time at centre with Gaudreau. Those three points in that minuscule ice time (2.45 P/60) is a higher even strength production rate than Monahan had centering Gaudreau (2.11 P/60). It's a small sample size but that's the point. The bigger samples of him at center have him with 3rd liners. 153:23 centering Ferland. 113:00 centering Colborne. THat's hardly comparable to getting Hudler and Gaudreau on your wing or Frolik and... Bennett on your wing.
He didn't get an assist on this one since it was a tertiary touch but yet again, pure centreman play leading to a goal: 4
Not just offense, he had his share of quality defensive plays at center. At wing he simply was not comfortable in any zone.
Here's another point where he's playing up high in a natural center area and his linemates are the beneficiaries:
Spoiler!
This next one, skip ahead to ~24 second mark and watch from that camera angle. Center play through and through.
Spoiler!
Bennett has much to learn. So does everyone his age.
Quote:
Bennett also played 8 years on McDavid's wing growing up so it's technically his natural position.
Bennett played center in Junior, the level of play that got him drafted. He based his style of play around guys like Doug Gilmour, Connor McDavid, Mike Richards, Jonathan Toews, and Sidney Crosby. Centers.
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Last edited by GranteedEV; 09-24-2016 at 02:33 PM.
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I think the following is mandatory watching for anyone commenting in this thread. (Thanks SOOO much AC!). I've watched it like 10 times.
Quick comments from his 2015/2016 season:
- He had four goals called back. That's insane! At least a couple probably should have been goals...giving him 20 as a rookie
- Most of his assists were of the primary variety and were HIGH talent in my mind. He did all the work and the recipient just banged 'em in. Which leads me to
- His linemates SUCKED! Had he played with even one top-6 NHL talent during his huge draught at centre...you could have added 10 more points to his rookie campaign. How many highlights ended with Mason Raymond falling down or Joe Colbourne missing the net? Good that they were sheltering him in his rookie season - but MAN did he ever have to drive every ounce of offence himself. There was no help for him.
Not to mention all the posts Bennett hit throughout the season and specifically during his dry spells. It seemed to me that he had an exceptional amount of poor "puck-luck." I wish there was a compilation of his "post shots" and/or a way to know how many he hit throughout the season compared to others. Perhaps I am naive and someone knows something they can share about this subject. However, I am also very lazy, as I thought to glance at his shooting percentages but didn't.
Needless-to-say, count me amongst those that think there is a huge amount of untapped potential, him being a potential 1a in our 1a/1b setup. I see potential to be in the upper echelon of scorers, while still bringing his gritty game.
Wasn't he voted the highest hockey IQ in the OHL in his draft year? (just going by memory)
Sure he has very good hockey IQ, but there's less than 20 players these days in the 70+ point club, and almost all of them I'd say have elite hockey IQ.
So I see him being more like our Marchand (40-60 points) than our Tavares (60-80 points).
Seems NHL video tag no longer works for videos before when they changed the referencing. I updated the post with links to the videos.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itse
Sure he has very good hockey IQ, but there's less than 20 players these days in the 70+ point club, and almost all of them I'd say have elite hockey IQ.
Almost all of them but three (Tarasenko/Gaudreau/Seguin) are also over 25 with a 60+ point linemate. That all matters. Not that Bennett's Hockey IQ should be questioned this early in is career. I've seen nothing suggesting it is lacking, other than a few sequences where the quality of NHL defenders' sticks and gap control surprised him. Which is normal for a rookie. Even McDavid was getting dummied by Kris Russell last year.
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Last edited by GranteedEV; 09-24-2016 at 01:33 PM.
Bennett has shown he can make great passes. The problem with playing him at centre with so-so linemates is that he is tempted to try to do it all himself. Giving him better wingers will help him develop as a playmaker and not just a net crasher.
Depends who he plays with long term. Tkachuk seems like a perfect fit but perhaps he ends up being a better fit with Gaudreau?
Right now Monahan has the title of #1C for the Flames and looks to have that spot secured. When we drafted Bennett I saw him as the highest ceiling Flames until Johnny had his sophmore season.
If the Flames big 4 forwards stay intact long term it will be interesting to see what the ultimate pairings will be. I think there is a legit chance in 4 years it is Bennett-Gaudreau and Monahan-Tkachuk
It so hard to predict offensive ceilings in today's hockey. Goalies are tough to beat and picks have hard times getting past all the opponents in front of the net.
But last year he was incredibly unlucky despite his chances, had garbage line-mates, and it was his skrawny rookie year, yet he managed 18 goals. This year he adds 10lbs of muscle, should have better linemates, and should face a little better luck, so I predict 25g/25a for 50pts, which is better than Backlund does but slightly worse than Monahan.
Not that Bennett's Hockey IQ should be questioned this early in is career. I've seen nothing suggesting it is lacking,
I'm not saying it's in any way lacking. Just not on a level that's likely to propel him among the elite point scorers in the league. Again, 70+ points is a very small club, there's not even 1 for every team every season, and guys that can put up those kinds of points regurarly are even more rare.
I do agree that he's young and linemates have a ton to do with point production. But since this is a speculation thread, that's my speculation. I don't pretend it to be very valuable
I'm not saying it's in any way lacking. Just not on a level that's likely to propel him among the elite point scorers in the league. Again, 70+ points is a very small club, there's not even 1 for every team every season, and guys that can put up those kinds of points regurarly are even more rare.
I do agree that he's young and linemates have a ton to do with point production. But since this is a speculation thread, that's my speculation. I don't pretend it to be very valuable
I agree that 70+ points is a very small club. I also acknowledge that some players who I think should be in that club, have yet to enter it (Nathan MacKinnon especially).
But I am really high on Bennett's offensive upside (and two-way).
See link #1 in my post above, but also see this similar backhand play:
The awareness to spin away from the pressure and still maintain the vision to find the open man on the tape... that is 40+ assist type potential. AC's Bennett video more plays that are more than just skilled - they're elite plays (Brodie's goal on Talbot, his domination of Duchene behind the net)
And we've all seen 30+ goal type potential from him between his Perry-esque net-front goals and his hard shot from between the hash marks.
It's true that the likely result is a 60-65 point center which is still #1 centre territory. I just think he's got potential to be better than just a #1 center.
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Sam Bennett is going into his 3rd year of his contract and only his 2nd full season. Its hard to peg him for where his ceiling is, but I can tell you its nothing close to Monahan's or Gaudreau's.
Look at Monahan or Gaudreaus offensive numbers in their first year and compare those to Bennett's. Bennett is a clear skill level below. He has still to really find a steady position where the flames think he belongs as well (he plays center and wing).
Bennett has a lot of upside and brings speed and grit to the lineup, with some offensive pop. This is extremely valuable, and he will be slotted in with a second/third line role.
He is not going to be a franchise player or a #1 centerman on this team however. The contract he signs will reflect this next off season, unless he miraculusly breaks out this year. I wouldn't say Sam has been a disappointment, but he certainly did not impress me anywhere near as often as Johnny or Mony. Its not a bad thing, he just is not as skilled. He plays a different role because of this.
Sam Bennett is going into his 3rd year of his contract and only his 2nd full season. Its hard to peg him for where his ceiling is, but I can tell you its nothing close to Monahan's or Gaudreau's.
And I can tell you that you're 100% wrong and you won't find a hockey analyst that will agree with you.
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Sam Bennett is going into his 3rd year of his contract and only his 2nd full season. Its hard to peg him for where his ceiling is, but I can tell you its nothing close to Monahan's or Gaudreau's.
Look at Monahan or Gaudreaus offensive numbers in their first year and compare those to Bennett's. Bennett is a clear skill level below. He has still to really find a steady position where the flames think he belongs as well (he plays center and wing).
Bennett has a lot of upside and brings speed and grit to the lineup, with some offensive pop. This is extremely valuable, and he will be slotted in with a second/third line role.
He is not going to be a franchise player or a #1 centerman on this team however. The contract he signs will reflect this next off season, unless he miraculusly breaks out this year. I wouldn't say Sam has been a disappointment, but he certainly did not impress me anywhere near as often as Johnny or Mony. Its not a bad thing, he just is not as skilled. He plays a different role because of this.
Bennett's numbers were just as good as Monahan's in his rookie year when you look at where their birthdays fall. Monahan was the 19 for most of his rookie year, just like Bennett. Johnny was a rookie at 21 so he is not comparable. Sky is the limit with Bennett, it is waaaaaay too soon to be putting limits on what he might become.
Whoa! Joe Sakic good??? If that's the case he will be a top 5 player in the league sooner than later!
His wrist shot is disgusting. Watch the Bennett highlights and watch some Sakic clips. The quick release, the velocity, the location, even the way he strides into the puck.
He's not the same style player as Sakic, but they have that in common. And Bennett was ranked #1 heading into the draft, so it's not like it's an unreasonable expectation for that type of player to one day be a top 5 player in the game.
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