[Trade] Panthers trade Bolland and Crouse to the Coyotes for a 2017 3rd and cond 2018 2nd

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Phoenix has $15 million dollars worth of cap hit for players that won't wear their uniform this year.

$18M actually (Datsyuk/Pronger/Bolland).

Which for them is a nice bit of work. Of that 18M only 6M of it is actual salary (Pronger+Bolland) and presumably both are fully insured. Given that Pronger is permanently hurt and Bolland hasn't gone a full season in quite some time without a long-term injury odds are that the Coyotes are only on the hook for a small % of it in real $$ terms (which is what the Coyotes care about).

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

That assumes the Panthers insured his contract, which they might not have.

If not insured, watch yotes flip bolland to a team close to the cap for a high salaried player, like the Clarkson/Horton deal. Can't see a cash poor team eating $5m to get a top prospect. Has to be a set up move.

[Oling_Roachinen]

I'm not sure we should be assuming Bolland was fully insured.

The Panthers have 9M+ in cap space right now, with 13 forwards, 8 defenseman and 3 goalies (Luongo, Reimer and Berra).

If it was just about cap space, then Bolland's cap hit really did nothing negative against the Panthers this year. They still had ample cap space.

Next year, with Ekblad's contract extension kicking in and Huberdeau needing to be re-signed, I suppose there's a case that they needed to move Bolland (conversely, next year they receive cap relief from getting rid of the Berra, Boyes cap hit and the overage penalty). But I think it begs the question of why not making a move like this later than.

I think it's likely that either Bolland wasn't fully insured, or that he is getting closer to returning and the Panthers don't want to pay for him. Could be a case of moving him now when you have the chance before you really need to and can't next season.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Regorium

I don't understand why we didn't make moves like this a couple years ago when we had all the cap space in the world and no chance of contending.

Good move.

I thought that too, but if we would have made trades like this a couple years ago, we'd be screwed this year for cap space.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Parallex

$18M actually (Datsyuk/Pronger/Bolland).

Which for them is a nice bit of work. Of that 18M only 6M of it is actual salary (Pronger+Bolland) and presumably both are fully insured. Given that Pronger is permanently hurt and Bolland hasn't gone a full season in quite some time without a long-term injury odds are that the Coyotes are only on the hook for a small % of it in real $$ terms (which is what the Coyotes care about).

I assumed Bolland would be healthy.

If he doesn't play, the Coyotes are "paying" around $20.5 million for guys to not play for them as they are paying Vermette and Riberio as well.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Matata

Can anyone explain to me what sorcery bolland used to get that contract in the first place?

Dumb NHL GMs gonna Dumb. This is why it is always amusing when people use NHL GMs' actions or lack thereof as proof positive of their assertions about players' actual value being fairly assessed by the market.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I think it's likely that either Bolland wasn't fully insured

IMO that's unlikely.

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

or that he is getting closer to returning and the Panthers don't want to pay for him.

More likely.

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Could be a case of moving him now when you have the chance before you really need to and can't next season.

Most likely.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I have asked myself the same question. But there is always an opportunity cost, in that we wouldn't have had the room to sign a guy like Frolik or Brouwer.

So let me ask you this: Would you rather have an overpriced veteran and a top prospect in the system, or Frolik for 4 years?

Wasn't the tradeoff for taking on Cam Ward gonna be a pick that could have been Nylander, Ehlers, or Larkin?

I would have taken Cam Ward and one of those guys, gladly, over Frolik. Can you imagine having Larkin and Bennett on a line together?

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Wasn't the tradeoff for taking on Cam Ward gonna be a pick that could have been Nylander, Ehlers, or Larkin?

I would have taken Cam Ward and one of those guys, gladly, over Frolik.

A: We don't know for sure if that deal was on offer,
B: It could have just as easily been Richie or Virtanen (I'd rather have Frolik then those guys).

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Love the deal for both teams. I had a long post all set and then something funky happened with my browser and I lost everything. I'll just say that Crouse is going to be an NHLer, but not necessarily a top 6 player. Getting Bolland off the Panthers where he had no role and just ate up a chunk of revenue with his bloated, useless contract is incredible, not just this year, but for the next several years. Panthers get back a couple of picks to rebuild the farm system a little (and they may be pretty high picks). Arizona gets a decent young prospect that could make their team this year. They also get Bolland who can fill out their center depth on the bottom 2 lines when healthy.

This is one of those rare win/win trades.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Completely the former. With the former, we might have even gotten a Puljijarvi or Matthews rather than Tkachuk (not that Tkachuk is bad or anything).

I guess my view of how the NHL works is exactly what Chayka is seeing. Basically if you're gonna suck, then suck. But if you're gonna be good, be REALLY good. Both are only made possible by top prospects. Everything else is secondary. It's clear that Chayka believes that his window is in about 3 years, when this contract gets off the books and he goes all in with his developed talent.

The first half of that strategy is substantially easier to execute than the second half (see: Oilers, Edmonton)

Fans are quick to jump on the if-you're-gonna-suck-SUCK bandwagon, but it is a little more complicated than that

[automaton 3]

I guess I'm in the minority that I like this for the Panthers. I'm not that high on Crouse, the Panthers move an expensive player whose best days are behind him, and gain two picks back.

[868904]

Originally Posted by united

Craig Custance @CraigCustance
Also, if the Coyotes trade Crouse this year the 2nd round pick locks in as a second. Complicated deal. Wouldn't rule this out either.

Given the Panthers scooped up the guys who created the premier (in public anyway) prospect grading system to run their drafting, a system that was low on Crouse, not a surprise they dealt him. Likewise, you have to think with the Coyotes' GM, Chayka, being an analytics guy, there is a good possibility the Coyotes flip him to an organization who places a priority on size/grit/hitz.

There must be something to this for Custance to comment on it. Would not be surprised if the Flames were involved. As noted, Flames have 3 good young defence prospects and Jokipakka (young NHL ready, World Cup player and cheap) might have equal value to Crouse. Crouse totally fits into what the Flames are looking for and they probably saw a lot of him while watching Bennett.

[sureLoss]

Stephen Whyno @SWhyno
#Coyotes' Chayka says Dave Bolland likely "won't be ready to play for the foreseeable future." Injured for the long term.

Insurance details on Bolland:

Brian Lawton @brianlawton9
If David Bolland is not healthy to play then @ArizonaCoyotes will pay $3,300,000 $1,100,000 per year or 20% of the contract in hard costs.

This deal could end up being Crouse plus a $5.5 mil cap hit to reach the floor for the next 3 years for $3.3 million in cash + 2 x 3rd rounders.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Parallex

A: We don't know for sure if that deal was on offer,
B: It could have just as easily been Richie or Virtanen (I'd rather have Frolik then those guys).

I really doubt it would have been Virtanen. Craig Button had him as a third rounder, his lists tend to follow the Flames lists pretty decently.

[Roof-Daddy]

This makes a ton of sense for the Yotes and Panthers.

The Coyotes will have trouble just making the cap floor for a few years with all the youth they will be utilizing. Next season they have close to $13 million coming off their cap just on two players who won't even dress for a single game in 2016/17.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

I have to laugh.

The Coyotes currently have the 11th highest salary cap hit in the NHL at $70.652 million.

Subtract the following guys they have on their books but aren't playing:
Pavel Datsyuk: $7.5 million (retired?)
Dave Bolland: $5.5 million (LTIR)
Chris Pronger: $4.935 million (LTIR/retired)
Mike Ribeiro: $1.44 million (buyout)
Antoine Vermette: $1.25 million (buyout)

That's over $20 million. Their actual salary is around $50 million. The Cap Floor is currently at $52.8 million.

They won't be very good this year, but they probably won't be in the basement either, and they could possibly compete for a playoff spot considering all the good young forwards they have.

Very crafty Arizona...very crafty indeed.

[Mister Yamoto]

They are the poorest team in the league but still have 20 million for players who don't play. That team is a joke.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

They are the poorest team in the league but still have 20 million for players who don't play. That team is a joke.

Most of it isn't real dollars. No real money to Datsyuk and very little to Pronger. Basically, they artificially inflated their salary to get over the floor without actually having to pay.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

They are the poorest team in the league but still have 20 million for players who don't play. That team is a joke.

No. They're taking on $20 million in cap hit for those players but only actually paying out a fraction of that. Also, they received assets in return for taking on the bad contracts.

If that tweet from Lawton is accurate, and they're only paying $1.1 million of Bolland's salary, there's very little money coming out of pocket for that $20 million in cap hit.

Datsyuk: $7.5M cap / $0 paid
Pronger: $4.935M cap / $575,000 paid
Bolland: $5.5M cap / $1.1M paid
Vermette: $1.25M cap/paid (rather than $3.75M for full contract)
Ribeiro: $1.44M cap/paid (rather than $6M for full contract)


Total cap hit: $20.625M ... Total paid: $4.365M.