What would a Gaudreau bridge deal look like?

[ComixZone]

Failure.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

I don't know why you assume it's Gaudreau dragging out negotiations, by all accounts he wants to play here long term. We don't know what's happening, but if Calgary wants to impose the Gio cap, there's reason to believe even Gaudreau's next contract offer will be well below market. That's not on Gaudreau being selfish. That's on the team not paying him what he's worth and forcing him to sign an offer sheet.

Would you take 10-20% less salary to help your company make more money?

Ignoring how blatantly this illustrates your motivations, let's just deal with the issue you attempted to imply:

The salary of an individual player has absolutely no bearing on the team's profitability at all, assuming the team spends to the cap regardless (which the Flames do).

The pool of money available to players and shared by players is equal to 50% of HRR REGARDLESS of what Gaudreau (or any other individual) gets paid. Him getting more just means there is less for others.

The only impact Gaudreau's salary has on the Flames is with respect to how much cap space it leaves for other players. So the more he gets paid, the less competitive the team can afford to be. I would assume that, as a Flames fan, this would concern you. But clearly you are only concerned with how much he gets paid.

You seem to be of the opinion that you are defending his honour and the rest of us don't appreciate his value. Nothing could be further from the truth. Pretty much all Flames fans love Gaudreau, and no one wants to see him underpaid. However, holding out for an extra million, when he's already going to get paid far more than most players, is simply greed that a) hurts the team competitively, and b) takes money away from other players.

Where is your indignation about that?

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Ignoring how blatantly this illustrates your motivations, let's just deal with the issue you attempted to imply:

The salary of an individual player has absolutely no bearing on the team's profitability at all, assuming the team spends to the cap regardless (which the Flames do).

The pool of money available to players and shared by players is equal to 50% of HRR REGARDLESS of what Gaudreau (or any other individual) gets paid. Him getting more just means there is less for others.

So you would accept 10-20% less salary if it meant your company could pay your coworkers more?

The only impact Gaudreau's salary has on the Flames is with respect to how much cap space it leaves for other players. So the more he gets paid, the less competitive the team can afford to be. I would assume that, as a Flames fan, this would concern you. But clearly you are only concerned with how much he gets paid.

The large pay day coming to Johnny does concern me. But not because he is putting the flames in a bad cap position, but because the Flames put themselves in a bad cap situation.

You seem to be of the opinion that you are defending his honour and the rest of us don't appreciate his value. Nothing could be further from the truth. Pretty much all Flames fans love Gaudreau, and no one wants to see him underpaid. However, holding out for an extra million, when he's already going to get paid far more than most players, is simply greed that a) hurts the team competitively, and b) takes money away from other players.

Where is your indignation about that?

I'm curious, why is Gaudreau the greedy one when he wants to get paid what he's worth, but it's ok for Monahan to make more than all his other comps? Surely Monahan should have just taken 5.4M instead of 6.4M, which was certainly on the high end of expectations. And it's ok for Giordano to sign a deal that will in all likelihood be a huge liability in the last few years? Seems odd that Johnny should have to pay for the fact that the his fellow teammates were 'greedy' and the Flames didn't use discretion when doling out these huge contracts.

[Samonadreau]

Dude. Enough already.

[bigrangy]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

So you would accept 10-20% less salary if it meant your company could pay your coworkers more?



The large pay day coming to Johnny does concern me. But not because he is putting the flames in a bad cap position, but because the Flames put themselves in a bad cap situation.



I'm curious, why is Gaudreau the greedy one when he wants to get paid what he's worth, but it's ok for Monahan to make more than all his other comps? Surely Monahan should have just taken 5.4M instead of 6.4M, which was certainly on the high end of expectations. And it's ok for Giordano to sign a deal that will in all likelihood be a huge liability in the last few years? Seems odd that Johnny should have to pay for the fact that the his fellow teammates were 'greedy' and the Flames didn't use discretion when doling out these huge contracts.

If Gaudreau wanted what he's worth, then Brad would have signed him to a 7x7.5 back in April. Maybe flames management is trying to haggle him down, but they've seemed very happy to open up the pocketbook for less important players than Gaudreau. This leads me to believe that his camp is asking for some number that is wildly out of line with his comparables, or they're looking for a bridge deal. Of the two options, I hope it's the latter. 2 years, 5 mil per and I'm laughing. Then if he's the best player in the league, the Flames won't have any problem paying him the 10 mil he deserves.

I'd prefer an 8 year deal at the market rate (i.e. no higher than 7.75), but sometimes you just can't get what you want.

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

If Gaudreau wanted what he's worth, then Brad would have signed him to a 7x7.5 back in April. Maybe flames management is trying to haggle him down, but they've seemed very happy to open up the pocketbook for less important players than Gaudreau. This leads me to believe that his camp is asking for some number that is wildly out of line with his comparables, or they're looking for a bridge deal. Of the two options, I hope it's the latter. 2 years, 5 mil per and I'm laughing. Then if he's the best player in the league, the Flames won't have any problem paying him the 10 mil he deserves.

I'd prefer an 8 year deal at the market rate (i.e. no higher than 7.75), but sometimes you just can't get what you want.

I tend to agree, only thing that makes me think otherwise is talk of this Gio cap nonsense.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

So you would accept 10-20% less salary if it meant your company could pay your coworkers more?

No. I absolutely would not.
Sidney Crosby did.

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

No. I absolutely would not.
Sidney Crosby did.

How many players do what Crosby has? Very few. And certainly nobody on this roster. Why should Gaudreau sacrifice earnings when nobody else on the team has? And why would his refusal to do so be considered greedy?

It's highly hypocritical.

[Enoch Root]

Posting the same thing, over and over and over again, does not strengthen your argument. Nor does it convince anyone else that you are right.

We know how you feel. Enough.

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Posting the same thing, over and over and over again, does not strengthen your argument. Nor does it convince anyone else that you are right.

We know how you feel. Enough.

You could actually just address my questions without whining about my posting. I guess its easier to attack the poster than debate on content.

Should I take your lack of response as a retraction of your previous comments, or would you like to clarify?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

You could actually just address my questions without whining about my posting. I guess its easier to attack the poster than debate on content.

Should I take your lack of response as a retraction of your previous comments, or would you like to clarify?

I have already addressed several of your posts. But you simply ignore what everyone else says and then complain that no one is reading your posts.

If there is something specific you would like me to address, let me know.

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I have already addressed several of your posts. But you simply ignore what everyone else says and then complain that no one is reading your posts.

If there is something specific you would like me to address, let me know.

Just respond to my previous question -

Why should Gaudreau sacrifice earnings when nobody else on the team has? And why would his refusal to do so be considered greedy? Surely Monahan should have just taken 5.4M instead of 6.4M, which was certainly on the high end of expectations.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

How many players do what Crosby has? Very few. And certainly nobody on this roster. Why should Gaudreau sacrifice earnings when nobody else on the team has? And why would his refusal to do so be considered greedy?

It's highly hypocritical.

Does Johnny value money or winning? He will be paid very well regardless but taking a tad less on the AAV so the Flames can retain their core and compete for cups year over year which is why Crosby also took less money and Stamkos as well. Johnny is a competitor and wants to win which is why I could see him signing for less than the $8+M you think he should get

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

Just respond to my previous question -

Why should Gaudreau sacrifice earnings when nobody else on the team has? And why would his refusal to do so be considered greedy? Surely Monahan should have just taken 5.4M instead of 6.4M, which was certainly on the high end of expectations.

$6.375M for Monahan is fair, based on comparables.

If Gaudreau signs for 7 x $6.75M, or maybe 8 x $7.25M (or something similar), I will feel the same about his deal.

However, if he holds out for $8M per, I will not be impressed. That would be similar to Monahan holding out for $7.5M per, which he didn't.

Your attempt to compare Monahan taking $5.4M was a completely unrealistic comparison and wasn't worth responding to.

[Bingo]

I think it's pretty simple math if both sides are being reasonable.

$5M for RFA years and $8M for UFA years.

Do only RFA years and he gets $5, add in UFA years and it goes up on average.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

How many players do what Crosby has? Very few. And certainly nobody on this roster. Why should Gaudreau sacrifice earnings when nobody else on the team has? And why would his refusal to do so be considered greedy?

It's highly hypocritical.

?
No one, including Flames management, said he should sign for less than he is worth.
No one but you spoke of 'greed'.

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Does Johnny value money or winning? He will be paid very well regardless but taking a tad less on the AAV so the Flames can retain their core and compete for cups year over year which is why Crosby also took less money and Stamkos as well. Johnny is a competitor and wants to win which is why I could see him signing for less than the $8+M you think he should get

I don't think he should sign for more than 8M. At max term I think 8M would be fair.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

$6.375M for Monahan is fair, based on comparables.

Its not unfair, but I think its definitely on the high side considering Scheifele signed at 6.125 for 8 years after scoring at a higher rate last year, Barkov at 5.9M, and Mackinnon, a former 1st overall pick, signed for 6.3M for 7.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

If Gaudreau signs for 7 x $6.75M, or maybe 8 x $7.25M (or something similar), I will feel the same about his deal.

According to Millions, he doesn't seem to think either of those options were ever made availble to Gaudreau because of the Gio cap. So in that case, you agree its not Gaudreau dragging out negotiations?

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

However, if he holds out for $8M per, I will not be impressed. That would be similar to Monahan holding out for $7.5M per, which he didn't.

Your attempt to compare Monahan taking $5.4M was a completely unrealistic comparison and wasn't worth responding to.

Johnny's best comparable is Tarasenko - 7.5M. Adjusting for inflation and the fact that Johnny has been even more productive, 7.75-8 would be a reasonable expectation on an 8 year deal.

Monahan's comparables were between 5.9M and 6.3M, and he took 6.375M. More than Barkov (5.9x6), Mackinnon (6.3x7), Scheifele (6.1x8), and Forsberg (6x6). If he were to take the kind of discount that you think Johnny should take, Monahan would have had to sign for ~5.6-5.9M AAV.

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

?
No one, including Flames management, said he should sign for less than he is worth.
No one but you spoke of 'greed'.

Really? Look up a few posts . . .

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

However, holding out for an extra million, when he's already going to get paid far more than most players, is simply greed that a) hurts the team competitively, and b) takes money away from other players.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

Johnny's best comparable is Tarasenko - 7.5M. Adjusting for inflation and the fact that Johnny has been even more productive, 7.75-8 would be a reasonable expectation on an 8 year deal.

It's funny that the Tarasenko deal can be used both ways.

A solid comparable for the Gaudreau camp to get paid, but also a good one for the Flames to bring up in how it turned out.

Tarasenko is a good hockey player, very productive, but his use in the playoffs really shown a light on the dangers of paying one dimensional hockey players as if they are franchise, well rounded players.

They couldn't use him five on five in tight games.

Now Gaureau has a better attitude for sure, but he's not going to help out on the PK, help in shutting down opponents, or become a wizard in his own zone. That hurts his "get paid like the best" argument a lot in my mind.

The Flames with Tkachuk now in the fold have to be careful how they go forward as they are looking a bit more like the Oilers from a few years ago (only in count don't worry!)

They may want to structure a deal around trading Gaudreau in 4 years for max value with money saved for Bennett and Tkachuk.

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think it's pretty simple math if both sides are being reasonable.

$5M for RFA years and $8M for UFA years.

Do only RFA years and he gets $5, add in UFA years and it goes up on average.

So you think $5.86M x 7 years or $6.13M x 8 years is reasonable?

This is what I'm talking about, the kid is underrated around here . . . and people think I'm out to lunch

Originally Posted by Bingo

Tarasenko is a good hockey player, very productive, but his use in the playoffs really shown a light on the dangers of paying one dimensional hockey players as if they are franchise, well rounded players.

They couldn't use him five on five in tight games.

Now Gaureau has a better attitude for sure, but he's not going to help out on the PK, help in shutting down opponents, or become a wizard in his own zone. That hurts his "get paid like the best" argument a lot in my mind.