Capital Punishment

[icecube]

It's not a deterrent. Never has been, never will be. Not even a little bit.

[Frequitude]

No.

a) You might kill an innocent person.
b) I believe life in maximum security prison is a greater punishment than death.

[CaptainCrunch]

until we can come up with a reliable way to do fast clone growth and memory transfers it doesn't seem to have much use except the person is in the ground.

Give me the above technology and I'll give you a deterrent

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Sliver

B and D are good points, but what's wrong with vengence? Personally, I like it.

Revenge makes for a great movie, but an awful society. You cannot have an arbitrary line where it becomes acceptable to forcibly take the life of another human being.

Furthermore, the monsters like Pickton and Bernardo are such outliers. Why would we want the nuclear option available with the potential to be misapplied when there's really only a handful of people who warrant it?

It's an unnecessary risk and it undermines a civilized notion of justice. We have prisons that are plenty awful on their own.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I hate the cost argument for or against capital punishment, it's purely a moral decision in my mind.

I'm also not a huge fan of the false imprisonment argument that basically says if one innocent person could die then it's bad otherwise spark it up. Don't get me wrong, I do think it's a real issue, it just detracts from the main issue, which is should the state execute criminals under any circumstance.

My belief is that killing another human is wrong, whether by an individual or the state. We should take the higher ground and not succumb to vengeance.

I think the cost and possibility of executing an innocent person is used to eliminate the moral question. Instead of being a subjective moral argument it becomes an objective one.

When considering actual practice there is no way to implement Capital Pumishment that provides a benefit. It's an objective fact. (I know people like to jump on using the word objective here but I believe it applies in this case as that is how strong the factual case against applied Capitol Pumishment is). It is proven not to be a deterrent, it's proven to execute the innocent, and it's proven to cost more.

The moral question is interesting and a great thought experiment on how society should treat people who don't follow its rules but it's unnecessary.

[peter12]

I am very much on the line on this one.

[Misterpants]

I'd rather see actual life sentences in crappier prisons than the death sentence.

If you want vengeance, I'd rather see them beg for death than have it granted.

Whoa, that got really dark.

[Zarley]

If hypothetically there was a way to prove guilt with 100% certainty, then I would have no issue with murderers being put to death. However, if there is even the slightest chance the the verdict may be wrong, I can't support it.

[FlamesAddiction]

I think some people don't realize how crappy prisons are. My sister is a correctional officer at a prison and it's not a good place to live the rest of your life. Most inmates end up with crippling depression and are subject to abuse from other inmates. Being disconnect from everyone you know and love is a terrible feeling to live with.

I am not saying some people don't deserve it, but it isn't like what life was like for an average person 100 years ago.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I think some people don't realize how crappy prisons are. My sister is a correctional officer at a prison and it's not a good place to live the rest of your life. Most inmates end up with crippling depression and are subject to abuse from other inmates. Being disconnect from everyone you know and love is a terrible feeling to live with.

I am not saying some people don't deserve it, but it isn't like what life was like for an average person 100 years ago.

I'm having trouble generating any sympathy.

To me the bottom line is that there should be two levels of prison.

the first built around rehabilitation. You send your first and non violent second time offenders there, spend lavishly on education and job skills training. Give them drug and alcohol rehab, and lavish mental health help and give them coping skills.

If your a two time violent offender or multiple time felon or child offender you go to a hole that has a door that only opens inwards. You get the basic necessities to survive, no cable no gyms just stark walls 23 hours a day and you fracking die there, and nobody cares.

You make it remote to the point that escape is impossible and you air drop in ration packs and water once a week.

[Thor]

I think this map always says it best about how using a death penalty is something in the future we will look back as barbaric. The list of nations still using it is pretty striking in their barbarism.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Thor

I think this map always says it best about how using a death penalty is something in the future we will look back as barbaric. The list of nations still using it is pretty striking in their barbarism.

As Archer might say, 'wow, you really don't think of those other countries as having their #### together'.

Side note, this map/argument is also great in an abortion debate.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm a believer in consequence for actions as well as the existence of deterrents.

So do you think capital punishment works as a deterrent?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

So do you think capital punishment works as a deterrent?

I believe he was saying he supports capital punishment but didn't want to outright say it. Otherwise his post was way too vague and doesn't answer the question at all.

Unless he just wanted to add a slightly on topic comment?

[sketchyt]

I used to support capital punishment. Then I asked myself if I could be the one to murder a murderer/rapist/horrible person... if I could be the one to shoot, to strap someone into an electric chair, to inject poison, the one to push the big red button, etc...

Ultimately, I realized if I had the capacity to kill someone outside of immediate self defence, it would make me a pretty terrible human being.

[Simanium]

Originally Posted by icecube

It's not a deterrent. Never has been, never will be. Not even a little bit.

It's not a deterrent, but it is 100% effective in preventing a re-offending act. How often do you read a newspaper article about a murder or sexual assault, etc. and they mention that it's not the perpetrator's first offence or that they were out on parole?

[Minnie]

I do not support the return of the death penalty, but fack if there isn't the occasional case that makes my resolve waver ever so slightly.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Simanium

It's not a deterrent, but it is 100% effective in preventing a re-offending act. How often do you read a newspaper article about a murder or sexual assault, etc. and they mention that it's not the perpetrator's first offence or that they were out on parole?

It's also 100% effective at killing at least one innocent person.

And how many of the reoffender cases you are talking about would have been eligible for the death penalty as you would apply it. And remember the more you expand the death penalty the number of innocent people you kill goes up.

[mikephoen]

I'm probably 98% against but sometimes I wonder about the deterrent potential of the death penalty if it was for things like theft or tax evasion. Would anyone text and drive if the penalty for distracted driving was death?

EDIT: I should maybe qualify this by saying that I don't seriously think this would ever happen. I just meant more as a thought experiment. How would society change if the penalty for these lesser crimes was cranked way, way up?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

I'm probably 98% against but sometimes I wonder about the deterrent potential of the death penalty if it was for things like theft or tax evasion. Would anyone text and drive if the penalty for distracted driving was death?

When cutting of hands was the penalty for stealing people still lost hands. So I'm not sure that death would be a Deterrent. Also I think accidental death would be high as people who speed get the death penalty.

A lot of crime is need based So drug related crime would not drop for sure.