About 50 people killed at gay nightclub in Florida

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by oilyfan

Change Muslim to fundamentalist Christian and ask yourself the same question.

So you know this guy is a fundamentalist Muslim?

[oilyfan]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

So you know this guy is a fundamentalist Muslim?

Yes I will speculate that he is.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

So you know this guy is a fundamentalist Muslim?

Let's assume no. Then the motivation to kill dozens of people is an extremely innate hatred of gay people and/or profound self loathing. Do you find this likely?

[GGG]

Warning mass speculation ahead

i think this terrorism vs hate crime vs religiously motivated is a muddle of poor definitions.

When people think terrorism I think they are referring to jihad with the purpose of expanding and creating a caliphate. This is a kind of terrorism let's call it Islamic Jihad motivated terrorism

I don't think this is Islamic jihad terrorism.

You also have religiously motivated domestic terrorism. These are the abortion bombers. I think this person fits here. As his hatred was religiously motivated Against a specific group. I think the way to stop this type of terrorism is different than jihady terrorism.

Then you have your anti-government terrorism. Your mcveighs and those Oregon folks.

It's all terrorism which is made easier by the easy access to weapons. If this guy just had a semi auto hand gun less than half as many people die.

[the_only_turek_fan]

I believe everyone is entitled to own a gun, but magazine clips and assault rifles should be banned.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by zamler

Let's assume no. Then the motivation to kill dozens of people is an extremely innate hatred of gay people and/or profound self loathing. Do you find this likely?

Of course. Whatever the reason this guy obviously hated gays and chose to kill gay people. Wherever the hate originated I just don't see the difference. Plenty of non religious people hate gay people the same way plenty of non religious people hate other minorities.

[the_only_turek_fan]

And the US government needs to engage in a massive buy back program that gets these things off the street.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by zamler

Let's assume no. Then the motivation to kill dozens of people is an extremely innate hatred of gay people and/or profound self loathing. Do you find this likely?

It's happened before. Replace gay people with women and you have ecole polytechnique

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

What a terrible tragedy.

And on top of that, Trump is going to have a field day with this. Fuel the fires for a Muslim ban.

And yet...doesn't this (again) poke holes in the 'more guns would prevent tragedies like this'. Trump went off on this after the Paris attacks and I am pretty sure Florida has well armed citizenry...did a citizen with a gun stop this loser? Of course not...

Its insanity...

[CliffFletcher]

You don't have to be a religious fanatic who reads online screeds and calls to violence in order to go on a killing rampage. But it certainly greases the wheels.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

And yet...doesn't this (again) poke holes in the 'more guns would prevent tragedies like this'. Trump went off on this after the Paris attacks and I am pretty sure Florida has well armed citizenry...did a citizen with a gun stop this loser? Of course not...

Its insanity...

The shooter was apparently on a terrorist watchlist. @igorvolsky on Twitter has been haranguing every US Senator who took money from the NRA and voted down a bill that would have banned people on the terrorist watchlist from owning firearms.

Yup, America is so effed up that its own government is letting people it fears will kill people have the tools to do just that.

Also, this: http://www.chron.com/news/article/Te...at-8076147.php

[Senator Clay Davis]

The ex-wife of the 29-year-old man suspected of killing 50 people in a Orlando nightclub early Sunday said that he was violent and mentally unstable and beat her repeatedly while they were married.

The ex-wife said she met Omar Mateen online about eight years ago and decided to move to Florida and marry him.

At first, the marriage was normal, she said, but then he became abusive.

“He was not a stable person,” said the ex-wife, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because she feared for her safety in the wake of the mass shooting. “He beat me. He would just come home and start beating me up because the laundry wasn’t finished or something like that.”

Mateen’s ex-wife said his family was from Afghanistan, but her ex-husband was born in New York. His family later moved to Florida. In a series of Myspace photos, Mateen is seen taking selfies and wearing NYPD shirts in a couple of the shots. His ex-wife identified him as the man in the Myspace photos.

“He seemed like a normal human being,” she said, adding that he wasn’t very religious and worked out at the gym out often. She said in the few months they were married he gave no signs of having fallen under the sway of radical Islam. She said he owned a small-caliber handgun and worked as a guard at a nearby facility for juvenile delinquents.

“He was a very private person,” she said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...1168&tid=ss_tw

[CaptainCrunch]

I wouldn't be surprised if this monster was exchanging emails or messages with some foreign ISIS recruiter or mouth piece.

Its such an easy way to spread terror. Leave it out there for the angry, the disenfranchised, the hateful and the stupid and give them a way to talk to someone that will let them vent those emotions.

Its dime store terrorism at its best.

Everyone who knows me here and in real life knows that I subscribe at this point to extreme gun control. They're not needed in the hands of your average citizen, they do more harm then good, and in the hands of a novice or idiot, the whole defense thing flies out the window.

Your not going to put off the US army and marines and airforce as a militia if an oppressive government ever comes into play.

For sportsmen, and hunters either restrict them to black powder muskets or rifles and pistols that hold 3 bullets maximum and have a really complicated reloading method that takes about 5 minutes to do.

At the same time, it should be an automatic life sentence with no parole for any crime involving a fire arm. Anyone that shoots another person is a dire threat to society period end of story, we can use all of those empty jail cells when we release the low level grass offenders.

Also firearms manufacturers really need to be held to task, this whole thing is getting stupid. and foreign countries who are shipping guns into the States need to be held accountable and that includes allies like Isreal.

I'm sick of reading about these things.

Oh and FYI, the NRA needs to pay taxes.

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The shooter was apparently on a terrorist watchlist. @igorvolsky on Twitter has been haranguing every US Senator who took money from the NRA and voted down a bill that would have banned people on the terrorist watchlist from owning firearms.

Yup, America is so effed up that its own government is letting people it fears will kill people have the tools to do just that.

Also, this: http://www.chron.com/news/article/Te...at-8076147.php

Obama had mentioned this vulnerability when they removed the gunshow loophole. How on earth are terrorists allowed to buy guns? Certainly National Security should trump gun rights by any reasonable measure. First legislative move should be to change that.

It's insane that suspects who are not allowed to fly can buy guns.

[calumniate]

Sickening.. those poor people :-(

[T@T]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

So you know this guy is a fundamentalist Muslim?

He pledged his allegiance to ISIS during the shootout.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by T@T

He pledged his allegiance to ISIS during the shootout.

ISIS has kind of become a catch-all for psychos. Some religious fundamentalists and some just thrill-killers.

Those poor people though. It must have been terrifying.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by T@T

He pledged his allegiance to ISIS during the shootout.

Source?

[Bunk]

This is where the definition of terrorism becomes really complex. To me a mass violet act has to have some tie to a state or organization to be terrorism. Support in planning, resources and formal connection to the group's political goals.

This is certainly a mass violent act tied to extreme ideology and hate against a group, probably religion rooted, but the tie to ISIS as an organization seems loose (but that could be proven differently). Is an act "inspired" by a terrorist group by an individual extremist, terrorism? Maybe it's most accurately described as a hate crime. I just don't know, but it seems lines are blurring and our brains have a hard time with it because it likes to categorize things neatly.

[MoneyGuy]

Is it even possible to get all the guns out of the hands of Americans, as someone has suggested? There have to be tens or hundreds of millions of them and it's their right to bear arms, don't ya know. There would be mass civil disobedience or mass revolt.