Sean Monahan or: Should we Learn to Stop Worrying and Love our #1C

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by MattyC

This this 1000x this.

Out of thanks. But, I also totally agree

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

However, why is Kuznetsov way higher than Monahan?

Because Kuznetsov is possibly the best playmaker in the NHL, Monahan is not.

Why is Barkov ahead of Monahan?

Because Barkov is possibly the best defensive center in the NHL, Monahan is not.

Monahan should be in tier 2/3 with Stamkos, IMO.

So if you swapped Getzlaf and Monahan, the Ducks don't miss a beat?
So if you swapped Kesler and Monahan, the Ducks don't miss a beat?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Out of thanks. But, I also totally agree

He's core but he's not elite!

He's elite but not a superstar!

He's a #1 but not a TRUE #1!

Whoa whoa, he's not playing with Johnny tonight, must a #2!

Backlunds line is at the top of that tweet! Backlunds a #3 not a #1!

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

However, why is Kuznetsov way higher than Monahan? Why is Barkov ahead of Monahan?

Why not watch them for yourself and find out!

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Why not watch them for yourself and find out!

There's a solid case that could be made for Kuznetsov. But I think Monahan is ever-so-slightly better than Barkov.

Why does this matter, though?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Why does this matter, though?

It matters because those players represent tiers that separate Sean Monahan from Sidney Crosby.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

But I think Monahan is ever-so-slightly better than Barkov.

Why does this matter, though?

You brought it up. I'd take Barkov #1 in a redraft of 2013. Monahan is a #1 centre but I think Barkov can be even more elite and dominating. He's huge, strong with a ridiculous reach and he's got Jagr teaching him how to shield the puck. He's got crazy skill there too. I think in his prime he will be one of the hardest centres to shut down in the entire league. I really, really wanted him in 2013 and everything I've seen since then has only reaffirmed that. Panthers future is bright, just as the Flames is.

[IgiTang]

Johnny Gaudreau would likely be very disappointed to hear a Flames fan thinks Kuznetsov is considered "the beat play maker in the league". Especially since Johnny has more points.

And if we are talking assists only, that's very naive..

How many plays has JG started and finished by scoring a goal... ? Lots.

In terms of the OP, great analysis!

At 21 years old to be in that group of C's, how could you consider him a true #1?

And don't forget, he proved he can do it without Johnny. Johnny has made him better sure, but the same argument could beade that Money made Johnny better.

A good analysis would be all C's in the league, their icetime avg, and then production. I wonder where Money would sit then.

I'm guessing somewhere amongst some pretty elite centers in the NHL. Then look at his age.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Johnny Gaudreau would likely be very disappointed to hear a Flames fan thinks Kuznetsov is considered "the beat play maker in the league". Especially since Johnny has more points.

I said "possibly". Crosby, Kuznetsov, Thornton, Kane, Gaudreau, Benn, Malkin, McDavid, Tavares... all are up there. Monahan is not.

And don't forget, he proved he can do it without Johnny.

You mean that one game against the Arizona Coyotes? How about all the other times they've been split up?

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I said "possibly". Crosby, Kuznetsov, Thornton, Kane, Gaudreau, Benn, Malkin, Tavares... all are up there. Monahan is not.



You mean that one game against the Arizona Coyotes? How about all the other times they've been split up?

MB on missing the " possibly".

But your bad on insinuating I was saying Monahan was in the playmaker convo. I agree he's not.

And no, in not talking about the one game against Arizona...

Im talking about his entire first season when JG wasn't even in the NHL. Monahan produced without JG.

[shotinthebacklund]

If you were to tell teams monahan is on the trade block , every single team in the league picks up the phone.

I really could care in the slightest if he is a "true" "elite" "number 1" center. He is the center we have playing big minutes in all responsibilities and I have never felt in a head to head match with any center in this league he is out classed. Ok , well maybe crosby. (Have seen too many crosby / flames beat downs)

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I would say that center tiers go something like:

Tier I
Crosby / Malkin

Tier II
Kopitar / Bergeron / Giroux / Thornton / Toews / Getzlaf / Kuznetsov / Seguin / Tavares/ Datsyuk / Backstrom / Stamkos / Carter / H. Sedin

Tier III
Barkov / McDavid / Kesler / Spezza / Krejci / Couture / Scheifele / Monahan / Johansen / O'Reilly / Mackinnon / Duchene / Eichel /

As for point totals, I'd be weary of them. The Flames are a very dangerous offense and no doubt Monahan has some contribution to that but I'd wager our blue line and high-risk high-reward offensive system has the most contribution to that.

Fixed your Tiers. Malkin is as good as Crosby. There really isn't much separating the guys I listed in the 2nd tier. Third tier is young guys looking to move up and guys that are trending somewhat down.

When did Barkov become the defensive center in the league? Ever heard of Bergeron? Datsyuk? Toews?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

You mean in the highest-scoring season of the last 20 years?

We're not comparing two players at the same age here.

I think Monahan is close to, if not at the level of, Sid Crosby.

C'mon man!

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

I think the worst thing anyone could say about Monahan right now is that maybe he isn't quite a number 1 C yet, but that everything his first three years points to him being one in short order. And to me that's the worst you could say about the guy.

For me, he's already a true number 1 C progressing to an elite 1C in this league. But forgive me if this was already brought up, but doesn't the OPs analysis and logic simply prove that Mono is the "Flames" current number 1C and how much better or trusted he might be than the Flames other C's at the moment? I don't think that's what people are thinking about when the number 1 C conversations come up. I think they are talking about an impact #1 C who is good enough to win a cup with. The Flames have had many number 1 C's up to Monahan coming along, but not a single one before Monahan and since Newindyke have met that criteria I think people talk about when debating this topic.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I would say that center tiers go something like:

Tier I
Crosby

Tier II
Malkin / Kopitar / Bergeron / Giroux / Thornton / Toews / Getzlaf / Kuznetsov

Tier III
Seguin / Barkov / Tavares / McDavid / Kesler / Spezza / Krejci / Datsyuk / Backstrom

Tier IV
Couture / ModernDayStamkos / Carter / Scheifele / Monahan / Johansen

As for point totals, I'd be weary of them. The Flames are a very dangerous offense and no doubt Monahan has some contribution to that but I'd wager our blue line and high-risk high-reward offensive system has the most contribution to that.

I agree that Crosby and more of the centers on your list above are on a higher level than Monahan, but he is much better than most above him as well.

[Vulcan]

Well he's our #1 centre and it's good to see his stats compare with the best.

[PeteMoss]

If Luongo isn't rocking a .922 save percentage at age 37 (and Florida doesn't have a top 5 shooting percentage) somehow I doubt anyone is talking about Barkov as the best defensive centre in the league.

[Super-Rye]

Sean Monahan is a very good young player.

In the 3 years he has been here he has:

Become the teams top center.
Shown great chemistry with the Flames best player.
Scored 30 goals. (A hatty in the final game of the season will give him 2 30 goal seasons.)
Outscored everyone in his draft class including the highly touted 1st overall pick (6 more points and 21 more goals than MacKinnon.)
Increased his FO% every year.
Become a solid two-way player playing against other teams top players.

Watching him I sometimes forget he is only 21 years old.

If you're not happy with Monahan as our top center then you're never going to be happy.

Some people have the most unrealistic expectations.

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

At worst, he's one tier below. At age 21, he has 63 points.

That statement is approaching HF Oilers level of delusion and homerism.

Your site must be where Oiler fans go to laugh at Flames fandom.

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Fixed your Tiers. Malkin is as good as Crosby. There really isn't much separating the guys I listed in the 2nd tier. Third tier is young guys looking to move up and guys that are trending somewhat down.

When did Barkov become the defensive center in the league? Ever heard of Bergeron? Datsyuk? Toews?

Disagree with Malkin being as good as Crosby. Malkin benefits more from being on Crosby's team then vica versa. I think Crosby is in the top tier by himself.

I'd personally take Kopitar or Toews over Malkin if I was building a team, but it's close.