High Flying Defense: Good or Bad? - Page 3 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Roof-Daddy · 03-31-2016, 02:03 PM

"High flying" or very mobile, puck moving defense that can put up points is absolutely friggin awesome and no they shouldn't change it. That's where the Flames secondary scoring is coming from, and if they ever add another line or two this team will be among the tops in offensive production.

Could definitely use some tweaks in the D zone though, but if this team had Rinne for a goalie they'd be fighting for the last playoff spot IMO.

Flames Draft Watcher · 03-31-2016, 02:04 PM

The Flames and Oilers situations are not somewhat similar at all. One team has no top two defensemen. The other team has three guys who would be top pairing d-men on the Oilers. Defense wins. The Oilers may only now be starting to realize this.

GranteedEV · 03-31-2016, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Ramo was crap to start the season. He was costing the team games.

At the time Ramo was put on waivers, he was 0-3 with an .879 sv%.

Revisionist history at its best. He didn't cost us Game 1. Playing like **** cost us game 1. He wasn't great but did not cost the team that game. Unless you believe in winning despite playing like **** because a super star goalie goes God Mode.

He didn't cost us the Jets game. Scoring one goal cost us the Jets game and he made some super quality saves. He had a bad late goal that never would have mattered if this team wasn't getting outplayed.

And he sure didn't cost us the Capitals game. He had one goal he'd like back in that game, that still wouldn't have been a goal with good coverage.

Ramo was not good to start the year. But he did not cost us a single game in October.

Quote:

Secondly, this is a smaller quibble, but Nakladal still struggles with defensive coverage and recognition of the play. He's getting better, but I don't think he deserves top 4 minutes, regardless of what the advanced stats say.

Can you stop bringing advanced stats up every time I post something you disagree with? It's clear you want to paint me as some Ryan Lambert idiot who can't see beyond charts but I don't appreciate it. I've never even looked at a chart of Nakladal.

I'm well aware that Nakladal isn't perfect in the defensive zone but it's a different set of tradeoffs he and Schlemko brought, that are effective. It's something coaches like Babcock and Boudreau are not afraid to experiment with. When your options are one #6 (Engelland) and another #6 (Nakladal) you are simply looking at different tradeoffs on who should be your #4.

...And +/- means nothing. Hamilton is one of the worst +/- guys on this team, by your logic he should be on the bottom pair. Usage impacts +/- and I would take the Devils' defensive play with Schlemko over the Flames.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

It's less of an issue because they are not incompetent at their jobs. But those guys don't steal many games.

I don't believe goalies need to steal "many" games if you have a good team. The Preds have gotten some terrible goaltending this year too, but they're in a playoff spot.

Street Pharmacist · 03-31-2016, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

It's less of an issue because they are not completely incompetent at their jobs. But those guys don't steal many games. They aren't above average goaltenders.

Goaltending is quite clearly and obviously the biggest issue this team has. It's so obvious that I'm quite befuddled when anyone who closely follows this team denies it. I thought it was the one thing all Flames fans could agree with. Apparently not.

I don't think anyone disagrees that is the biggest problem, but team play and weak depth up front make playoffs still hard to attain with average goaltending. This team is a long ways from where it needs to be goaltending aside. You said they're only a good goalie away and that's where many disagree

Flames Draft Watcher · 03-31-2016, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I don't think anyone disagrees that is the biggest problem, but team play and weak depth up front make playoffs still hard to attain with average goaltending. This team is a long ways from where it needs to be goaltending aside. You said they're only a good goalie away and that's where many disagree

Don't think I said that. They are a good goalie away from solving most of the issues. They also need 1-2 more top 6 wingers, preferably power forwards.

Erick Estrada · 03-31-2016, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

The Flames and Oilers situations are not somewhat similar at all. One team has no top two defensemen. The other team has three guys who would be top pairing d-men on the Oilers. Defense wins. The Oilers may only now be starting to realize this.

IMO the Oilers have played better team defense than the Flames this season as a whole and they simply struggle to score goals because they lack offense from the back end. You can trumpet Brodie and Giordano all you want but the awful GAA and the video of poor defensive coverage doesn't lie.

Erick Estrada · 03-31-2016, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Don't think I said that. They are a good goalie away from solving most of the issues. They also need 1-2 more top 6 wingers, preferably power forwards.

Wrong. They are a good goalie away from solving their goaltending issue. The other issues like poor special teams, poor defensive zone play, and lack of finishing wingers still need to be addressed. Lets not go full Oilers fan here please. Neither Talbot or McJesus solved most of the Oilers issues. You keep insinuating that one player is the key which is shortsighted. The only way I can lean to your way of thinking is if the Flames got a healthy Carey Price.

Street Pharmacist · 03-31-2016, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Don't think I said that. They are a good goalie away from solving most of the issues. They also need 1-2 more top 6 wingers, preferably power forwards.

Sorry, misunderstood the bolded:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

A real NHL starting goaltender would make the defensive abilities of our defensive unit look about 5-10 times better. I think that's about all that is required to right the ship.

I guess in an ideal world you'd have a d-man who can play top 4 who is mobile, skilled, big, strong, mean and tough. We've lacked that crease clearing, mean hitting d-man like Regehr ever since we dealt him. Engelland does a pretty good job but is more of a 3rd pairing guy.

But overall I don't think our defense is a weak point at all. It's one of our strengths. Goaltending makes our defense look more one way than they actually are.

I'm assuming you meant with regards to defense then

Roof-Daddy · 03-31-2016, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Don't think I said that. They are a good goalie away from solving most of the issues. They also need 1-2 more top 6 wingers, preferably power forwards.

Agreed.

Take Stajan, Wideman, Smid, Raymond (his 2.2 that's still against cap), Hiller off the roster and add Wheeler, Lucic and Halak and does anybody here really think this team is anywhere near a top 5 pick?

Frank MetaMusil · 03-31-2016, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Wrong. They are a good goalie away from solving their goaltending issue. The other issues like poor special teams, poor defensive zone play, and lack of finishing wingers still need to be addressed. Lets not go full Oilers fan here please. Neither Talbot or McJesus solved most of the Oilers issues. You keep insinuating that one player is the key which is shortsighted. The only way I can lean to your way of thinking is if the Flames got a healthy Carey Price.

That's three posts in a row you've referenced Edmonton. Nobody cares what that team is doing. Their issue is the core they've built and refuse to dismantle. Oilers management has changed out every single player around those pieces.

The Flames need a better goalie man. It's not debatable. It will drastically improve a number of facets that need work, including the PK.

GranteedEV · 03-31-2016, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

A real NHL starting goaltender would make the defensive abilities of our defensive unit look about 5-10 times better. I think that's about all that is required to right the ship.

Defensive play is absolutely a weak point. Whether that's forwards or D, this team bleeds chances and gets hemmed in often. When games are tied the other team always has momentum until they score. Coverage on PK, I don't care if you give us Carey Price, the coverage on PK is tear-worthy.

Flames Draft Watcher · 03-31-2016, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

IMO the Oilers have played better team defense than the Flames this season as a whole and they simply struggle to score goals because they lack offense from the back end. You can trumpet Brodie and Giordano all you want but the awful GAA and the video of poor defensive coverage doesn't lie.

That's a laughable opinion and that's about all I have in response. Some laughs. Oilers play better team defense? Wow, I've heard it all. Have you watched the Oilers? Good lord.

Wow, what a head shaker.

dino7c · 03-31-2016, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

IMO the Oilers have played better team defense than the Flames this season as a whole and they simply struggle to score goals because they lack offense from the back end. You can trumpet Brodie and Giordano all you want but the awful GAA and the video of poor defensive coverage doesn't lie.

lol you can't be serious, Oilers are giving up on average over 31 shots per game

Flames Draft Watcher · 03-31-2016, 02:32 PM

There's some serious trolling going on in this thread right now. Oilers play better team defense than the Flames? Goaltending isn't the most important issue with our team?

Seriously guys, which alternate reality are you living in and how do you access this board from that alternate reality? Serious question, I'm quite curious.

GranteedEV · 03-31-2016, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

There's some serious trolling going on in this thread right now. ... Goaltending isn't the most important issue with our team?

Seriously guys, which alternate reality are you living in and how do you access this board from that alternate reality? Serious question, I'm quite curious.

The reality where people actually watch what's happening in front of the goaltender instead of just automatically blaming them for every loss where their save percentage isn't .950.

dino7c · 03-31-2016, 02:35 PM

The way the team is playing the ultra-negative types are just too much...team is bad enough just calling a spade a spade there is no longer a need to exaggerate

dino7c · 03-31-2016, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

The reality where people actually watch what's happening in front of the goaltender instead of just automatically blaming them for every loss where their save percentage isn't .950.

"Oilers play better team defence " disagreeing with that is a FAR cry from blaming the goal tending for everything. Hiller had a .400 save percentage last night and Backstrom was in the 700s

SuperMatt18 · 03-31-2016, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

The reality where people actually watch what's happening in front of the goaltender instead of just automatically blaming them for every loss where their save percentage isn't .950.

I don't think anybody thinks that the teams defensive zone and special teams play isn't a problem. People are just arguing that goaltending is clearly the biggest problem right now.

Our save percentage is 12 points lower than then next worst team - that is enormous. Nobody is expecting .950 save percentages, but somewhere in that .910 (league average) area would be nice (hell even just .900 would be a big improvement over the .890 we have this year).

If the Oilers had the same save percentage as the Flames this year they would have given up 39 more goals then they have this season.

Flames get average goaltending and they move from 30th in GA to 15th in GA. That right there is pretty clearly the biggest problem a team could have.

dino7c · 03-31-2016, 02:40 PM

Flames are 13th in shots against, I agree they give up quality but still lets get real here

Frank MetaMusil · 03-31-2016, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dino7c

Flames are 13th in shots against, I agree they give up quality but still lets get real here

Last game was 27-26 anaheim. Hardly a shooting gallery either.

You can't win when a goalie is only able to stop 2 of the first 5 shots he faces.