Are the Flames a "soft" team?

[MarkGio]

Wrong thread

[GirlySports]

the NHL as a whole has become 'soft'. It's not a negative thing, it's a skating, skillful and positional game now.

Kadri's the only guy who gets jumped these days.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Are the sharks the hardest team then?

Well I never said the Flames are the softest team in the league, although their record is an indication of their softness. If their away record was 5th or 7th worst, it still would be notable. What's with this board lately taking anything I say to the extreme?

[CliffFletcher]

The Hawks are easily the softest of the Stanley Cup contenders. Here's how I would rank the toughness of their top-six with the Flames top-six.

Toews
Seabrook
Giordano
Keith
Hamilton
Hjalmarsson
Backlund
Kane
Hossa
Brodie
Gaudreau
Monahan

A ranking with the top-six of the Kings, Blues, or Capitals would be embarrassing.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

the NHL as a whole has become 'soft'. It's not a negative thing, it's a skating, skillful and positional game now.

Kadri's the only guy who gets jumped these days.

But the old men yelling at the clouds are telling me different. All I can hear is "back in my days...rabble rabble instigator rabble instigator ruined hockey rabble rabble"

Like Bollig or Mcgrattan last year did a single thing to prevent Gaudreau from getting slashed. Pro fighting crowds don't use reality just their imagination.

[calgaryblood]

Some of the biggest rats and cheapest, dirtiest players in NHL history was during the time of the pinnacle of fighting and did Claude Lemieux care? did the rats of that era quit doing dirty things when their was no instigator?

[gvitaly]

We are too soft for the western conference, and for the Pacific division. We simply have too many players that are nice guys on and off the ice. It comes into play in:
1. Our players not taking an extra poke at a goalie who has a puck.
2. The opposition players players not paying the price when they stand in front of our net. If someone made it to the front of your net with the puck, they shouldn't be standing after the attempt.
3. The team doesn't have a pack mentality after the whistle. In the offensive zone the defenseman simply skate away, so it becomes a 3 on 5 for our forwards. Also most of our players will prefer to hold onto someone instead of dropping the gloves, or trying to rough someone up.

As a result, it becomes increasingly tougher for our players to stand up for themselves, because their teammates don't have their back after the whistle. It also makes the work easier for the opposition goalies and harder for ours. However, our goalies are now better protected(especially thanks to Engelland) in comparison to Kipper's last few seasons here.

How would I improve it? It starts with a team mentality and the captain. I want to see Gio more engaged, skating towards the opposition net after the whistle to set an example. It is not a matter of just changing role players(we have those), but of improved leadership and sticking up for eachother no matter what.

[GirlySports]

1. I agree
2. probably a penalty
3. defensemen can't come down to join the scrum in the offensive zone.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

1. I agree
2. probably a penalty
3. defensemen can't come down to join the scrum in the offensive zone.

2. Other teams do it to the Flames all the time! Without being penalized at that. Everything from hooks to crosschecks after the whistle, just to power our players onto the ice.
3. I had no idea they can't, but again other teams seem to do it to the Flames on a regular basis, when things come down to pushing and shoving after the whistle.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

The Flames are soft. Nothing to do with fights and scrums, and everything to do with puck battles, cycling low, breaking up the cycle, clearing out the net area and general physicality. There is a reason they consistently struggle with teams like the Blues, Ducks, etc. Just need to get a bit bigger on F and D, which is exactly the plan Treliving has indicated. Even since the trade deadline, I think the D is playing tougher. Monahan has also raised his game in that regard, and it helped him on the scoresheet as well.

It's not all bad, as they are a skilled team. They are able to score off the rush, which many teams struggle with.

[Poe969]

To me the Flames are extremely soft. I think this team gets pushed around a lot and they seem to be intimidated by other teams more than they intimidate other teams. I don't agree with saying guys like Backlund are tough, sure they can stand up for themselves and don't back down but they aren't the kind of player to intimidate other teams. I think the Flames lack guys who push around the other team. The more I think about it, the more I think Lucic would be a great fit on this team. The Flames don't have someone who can push the other team around and make them look over their shoulder, there are guys like Gio who can make big hits or a guy like Ferland that can stir the pot but they lack a guy who will just physically dominate along the boards or in scrums.

This isn't to say that the Flames are pushovers because they stand up for themselves, but they never really seem to be the team that's pushing the other team over.

[GirlySports]

hmmm

i think it's just a speed and positional game now. We always hear the argument "why do they not finish their check, just bump the guy".

But in a world of full speed 40 second shifts, hitting the defenseman behind his net once the puck is already gone puts you 1 or 2 steps behind the play and with the way the puck moves now, that can't be recovered without running out of breath.

Backlund does this all the time, he's circling in front of the opposition net before the defenseman even releases the pass. He needs to get back into position which is correct.


I do agree with the Flames losing against opposing pinching defenseman though. Perhaps need bigger more aggressive wingers to get that puck out.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The Hawks are easily the softest of the Stanley Cup contenders. Here's how I would rank the toughness of their top-six with the Flames top-six.

Toews
Seabrook
Giordano
Keith
Hamilton
Hjalmarsson
Backlund
Kane
Hossa
Brodie
Gaudreau
Monahan

A ranking with the top-six of the Kings, Blues, or Capitals would be embarrassing.

Chicago addressed their softness issue by getting Ladd for this playoff run.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

hmmm

i think it's just a speed and positional game now. We always hear the argument "why do they not finish their check, just bump the guy".

But in a world of full speed 40 second shifts, hitting the defenseman behind his net once the puck is already gone puts you 1 or 2 steps behind the play and with the way the puck moves now, that can't be recovered without running out of breath.

Backlund does this all the time, he's circling in front of the opposition net before the defenseman even releases the pass. He needs to get back into position which is correct.


I do agree with the Flames losing against opposing pinching defenseman though. Perhaps need bigger more aggressive wingers to get that puck out.

If only Ferland would have played "correctly" that against the Canucks last year.... our 10 years without winning a Playoff series would have been intact and our expectations would not have been raised.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

But the old men yelling at the clouds are telling me different. All I can hear is "back in my days...rabble rabble instigator rabble instigator ruined hockey rabble rabble"

Like Bollig or Mcgrattan last year did a single thing to prevent Gaudreau from getting slashed. Pro fighting crowds don't use reality just their imagination.

Unlike Seabrook and Toews - Doughty-Lucic-Muzzin-Brown Getzlaff-Perry-Kesler-Bieksa who are on the ice every second shift Bollig and McGrattan are not involved in the ongoing play.

[timbit]

http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2014/0...in-the-hockey/

This article from a couple of years ago accurately profiles what true toughness requires in the NHL today, IMO.
The more players on your team that are willing to pay the price in order to gain, keep or regain the puck in what has become a puck possession game ....determines how tough that team plays.
Getting to tough areas and winning the puck is what it is about these days.

Puck races, puck battles are what the game is all about today,

Patrice Bergeron?

Yep.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The Hawks are easily the softest of the Stanley Cup contenders. Here's how I would rank the toughness of their top-six with the Flames top-six.

Toews
Seabrook
Giordano
Keith
Hamilton
Hjalmarsson
Backlund
Kane
Hossa
Brodie
Gaudreau
Monahan

A ranking with the top-six of the Kings, Blues, or Capitals would be embarrassing.

This list is a complete joke though..

What makes Toews and Seabrook tougher than Gio? Nothing is the answer. If Gio can manhandle Dustin Brown in his prime, he can man handle anyone on the Hawks.

Hamilton has 5 inches and 20 lb's on Keith. He's also using his size this year so I consider him pretty tough.

Why is Monahan at the bottom of the list? You have him below Gaudreau... He's great at pushing players off the puck.

Brodie isn't a soft player. He doesn't play overly physical because he's too busy taking the puck away.

Kane should be with Gaudreau at the bottom of the list.

Hossa isn't a top-6 player which further shows that you don't have a clue what your talking about. But I guess putting a 5'10 170lb Panarin on the list doesn't fit your narrative...

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Hossa isn't a top-6 player which further shows that you don't have a clue what your talking about. But I guess putting a 5'10 170lb Panarin on the list doesn't fit your narrative...

Hossa isn't a top 6 player? What? What?
He plays RW on Toews' line

YOU don't know what you're talking about.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Hossa isn't a top 6 player? What? What?
He plays RW on Toews' line

YOU don't know what you're talking about.

Right now he is, but he's spent the majority of the year on the 3rd line. I have him in my hockey pool and it has sucked.

And even if he was on the 2nd line, he's not the 3rd best forward which is what Cliff Fletcher was implying. His list is meant to identify the top 3 forward and top 3 defensemen.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

This list is a complete joke though..

What makes Toews and Seabrook tougher than Gio? Nothing is the answer. If Gio can manhandle Dustin Brown in his prime, he can man handle anyone on the Hawks.

Hamilton has 5 inches and 20 lb's on Keith. He's also using his size this year so I consider him pretty tough.

Why is Monahan at the bottom of the list? You have him below Gaudreau... He's great at pushing players off the puck.

Brodie isn't a soft player. He doesn't play overly physical because he's too busy taking the puck away.

Kane should be with Gaudreau at the bottom of the list.

Hossa isn't a top-6 player which further shows that you don't have a clue what your talking about. But I guess putting a 5'10 170lb Panarin on the list doesn't fit your narrative...

Wow ... Do you watch Hockey at all.....

Have you seen Seabrook and Toews battle?

Gio was really great against Brown....one of the best games ever by a Flame. It was shocking and unexpected and showed that Gio belonged in the NHL....

Now try to find anything more recent than 4-5 years ago that shows Gio physically competing let alone dominating. Likely having to do him spending months rehabing from injuries. His buddy Glencross played consistently harder and is done at the age where Gio starts cashing in his really big cheques.

Okay Monahan sometimes will use his size to push someone off the puck... Give me one example of him knocking someone over or driving a d-man into the goalie, or powering to the net making a D-man drive him to the goalie. The stuff Toews does on a regular basis.

Hamilton using his size?? If you look at the Flames goals against high lights try to locate Hamilton clearing the crease. He is usually doing the Bouwmester swoop so he can be closer to the bench when they change lines for the faceoff at centre ice.

Totally agree that Kane is equivalent to Gaudreau and am comfortable with that.