Is Dennis Wideman Tradeable this Summer?

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

I get that.

But the thread is asking about whether a guy is tradeable.

Well, is he in the top 50 or so in the NHL at something? Yes.

Is that something "scoring points"? Yes.

There's your answer.

It's been beaten to death but "Justin Schultz" is all you need to say.

[fanman]

He`s absolutely tradeable. The only snag will be his NMC limiting the return. As others have said retaining some salary may help to alleviate this, but who knows.

He`s still a serviceable Dman with experience that can put up points. Teams are always looking for that, especially at the trade deadline. His salary won`t be a huge problem as he`s only got one more year. If he`s not gone in the summer he only needs to have a mediocre season next year and he`ll have value at the deadline.

[dying4acup]

I would like to see starting game 1 next season (in order)
TJ
GIO
HAMILTON
KEVIN
NAKLADAL
WOTHERSPOON
ENGELLAND
LTIR:SCHMIDT

Pretty sure Wotherspoon has to clear waivers. Can anybody confirm?

I would absolutely hate to lose Spooner to waivers, especially 1 year before Engelland and wideman come off the books.

Ftr, that was the defense depth chart for the Pittsburgh game.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

I don't see Wideman waiving his NTC until the trade deadline next year. He will be a UFA next summer. It makes most sense for him to wait and see what teams are contenders and might be willing to re-sign him in the summer if he has a good playoffs.

The writing is on the wall for Widedog as a Flame, he'll use his NTC to find a good landing spot for himself.

His NTC will be the biggest barrier in trading him

[dino7c]

I'm sure Wideman would rather be in a southern US market where Eric Francis isn't camping out in his back yard to see if he really has a concussion. He would waive for a market with less media attention for sure IMO

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I'm sure Wideman would rather be in a southern US market where Eric Francis isn't camping out in his back yard to see if he really has a concussion.

Maybe we've been looking at this all wrong.

Maybe what we really need is to trade Eric Francis.

[powderjunkie]

I hope the people who think Wideman was so painful this year remember what they say now if we're losing next season due to rookie mistakes on the blue line (if Wideman were to be moved).

I certainly think he could be moved, but if our goal is to compete for the playoffs next year, then we have a better chance with him in the lineup. If we have a repeat of this year, then move him at the deadline. I think there's a better chance that he increases his value from present than it declines.

In the same vein as a trade for Miller, Lehtonen and Howard would be possibilities. Both had front loaded contracts, so they cost less than their cap hit, whereas Wideman is $6M real money next year (not as attractive to internal budget teams). Don't think I'd go down either path unless we can't find another solution in goal (which shouldn't be hard).

Each team can only retain money on 3 contracts at a time, right?

[3rd line Grinder]

Are those rookie mistakes any different than the ones wideman makes on any given night? It's physically painful to watch him in his own zone.

[Firebot]

I think fans always have a this constant disdain for veterans and wanting them shipped out in favour of cheaper, younger guys simply because of potential extra upside. Wideman has had a very bad year, but so did the Flames as a whole. Even Wideman of last year does not help this team into the playoffs.

I do not see Wotherspoon or even Nakladal replacing the 40 point+ production that Wideman brings, even with them being at their prime. Even Hamilton is quite not there yet.

He is a tradeable asset, but I just don't see why he needs to be traded next year when this team will inevitably be a lot better (as long as they get an actual goalie). He is a guy who his value would actually be higher next year near the end of his contract, than last trade deadline.

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

His NTC will be the biggest barrier in trading him

Usually is when a player gets to decide if and where they want to be traded. Kind of goes without saying.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by 3rd line Grinder

Are those rookie mistakes any different than the ones wideman makes on any given night? It's physically painful to watch him in his own zone.

Yes, they are a lot less frequent. And rookies don't come packaged with smart little things that tend to take years and years to develop.

You guys are looking at the young D-men through different lenses than vets (looking too hard for flaws in vets while ignoring them in young guys). And FWIW I'm all for getting the young guys in there for a bit now, but most defencemen not named Doughty or Ekblad do their real development in the AHL (and occasional cups of coffee in the bigs are helpful).

[868904]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Yes, they are a lot less frequent. And rookies don't come packaged with smart little things that tend to take years and years to develop.

You guys are looking at the young D-men through different lenses than vets (looking too hard for flaws in vets while ignoring them in young guys). And FWIW I'm all for getting the young guys in there for a bit now, but most defencemen not named Doughty or Ekblad do their real development in the AHL (and occasional cups of coffee in the bigs are helpful).

I'd really like to see turnover stats for Wideman compared to Wotherspoon an d Nakladal. Visually, it seems like Spoon and Nak make much less turnivers and mistakes than Wideman.

However I think your argument is a bit flawed. Most aren't talking about replacing Wideman with young dmen who aren't ready (say Kulak, Kylington, Andersson), people are talking about replacing Wideman with Jolipakka (a guy with 100 NHL games), Nakadal (a guy who is closing on 30 years old), and Wotherspoon (a prospect who has 3 seasons in the Ahl and will be waiver eligible soon).

I agree with what you are saying regarding the masses' desire to replace the old vet with the shiny new toy but I think In the case of Wideman, there is good reason to make the change because in summary 1) Wideman has never been good defensively, 2) there are 3 guys ahead of him who are equal or better offensively, 3) there are 3 younger, bigger, and cheaper guys who are at least on par defensively to Wideman.

[dying4acup]

Originally Posted by 868904

I'd really like to see turnover stats for Wideman compared to Wotherspoon an d Nakladal. Visually, it seems like Spoon and Nak make much less turnivers and mistakes than Wideman.

However I think your argument is a bit flawed. Most aren't talking about replacing Wideman with young dmen who aren't ready (say Kulak, Kylington, Andersson), people are talking about replacing Wideman with Jolipakka (a guy with 100 NHL games), Nakadal (a guy who is closing on 30 years old), and Wotherspoon (a prospect who has 3 seasons in the Ahl and will be waiver eligible soon).

I agree with what you are saying regarding the masses' desire to replace the old vet with the shiny new toy but I think In the case of Wideman, there is good reason to make the change because in summary 1) Wideman has never been good defensively, 2) there are 3 guys ahead of him who are equal or better offensively, 3) there are 3 younger, bigger, and cheaper guys who are at least on par defensively to Wideman.

Agree.

To re-iterate, the cap space is the attractive thing to me. Even at 2.6m retained that money could help upgrade RW. Could be the difference in landing a quality goalie and a reclaimation project.

I also don't want to lose Wotherspoon to waivers. I think he's eligible next fall, but not sure.

[Erick Estrada]

It sounds like the officials are pretty pissed off about the entire thing and I know they are saying the right things about being professional about it but I'm not sure if some teams will simply want to stay clear from the controversy. We saw the Flames penalties per game take a big spike after the incident so regardless of the officials saying the right things they are human and I don't think they are enamoured with the Flames (for publicly disagreeing with the original ruling) and Widemen. I would love if the Flames could distance themselves from the guy and trade him but I think that's going to be easier said than done.

[Poe969]

If it means retaining salary or taking a bad contract back, I don't think the Flames should trade Wideman this summer (unless it's part of a deal for a very good young player). I say keep him and shelter him and try and make him more of a PP specialist and not a top 4 guy. I think he'll put up better offensive numbers and be less of a defensive liability and if the Flames are out of the playoffs, he'll be trade bait at the next deadline. If the team succeeds next year, I think he'll be a big contributor.

[Enoch Root]

I agree about not taking another bad contract back (I would rather just wait until the deadline), but I would have no problem with them retaining salary.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It sounds like the officials are pretty pissed off about the entire thing and I know they are saying the right things about being professional about it but I'm not sure if some teams will simply want to stay clear from the controversy. We saw the Flames penalties per game take a big spike after the incident so regardless of the officials saying the right things they are human and I don't think they are enamoured with the Flames (for publicly disagreeing with the original ruling) and Widemen. I would love if the Flames could distance themselves from the guy and trade him but I think that's going to be easier said than done.

I wonder if there is grounds for the Flames to complain about this at the end of the year. A 50% increase (or whatever it is, seems like a lot) in penalties after the Wideman incident is not a coincidence and I don't see how anyone can argue that it is. The Flames magically went from being the least penalized team in the NHL for 1.5 seasons to an undisciplined mess pretty much at the exact moment all of this occurred. The NHL should be investigating for sure if this continues.

[CroFlames]

I don't think Wideman gets traded this summer.

He'll come back next year, and it'll give him a chance to redeem his 2015-16 season. If we get 50 point Wideman again, well then that's great! Hopefully he helps us into the playoffs, and his $5.2MM will be worth it. Remember, Ramo and Hiller contracts are both gone next season, so that's 8 million gone. Jones is already gone, and we aren't resigning Russell. Flames won't be in cap hell next season.

If he doesn't rebound, you're in the same boat you're in now, except it's probably slightly easier to move him since he'll be in the final year of his deal. Trading him in the summer is selling low. Bad for business.

[Burner]

another good question is - is Mason Raymond tradeable this summer??? 3.1 million for another year

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Burner

another good question is - is Mason Raymond tradeable this summer??? 3.1 million for another year

Yeah...... no. Buyout candidate if there ever was one.