Christian Schools Bring Suit Against UC

[89revival]

Originally posted by Frank the Tank+Aug 31 2005, 06:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Frank the Tank @ Aug 31 2005, 06:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-FireFly@Aug 31 2005, 01:29 PM
Here's a question for you all who don't believe:

Should the events depicted in the Book of Revelation actually occur, would you then believe?

And if monkeys flew out of my ass would you beleive I was a wizard? [/b][/quote]
Solid contribution

[Cheese]

Originally posted by peter12+Aug 31 2005, 02:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (peter12 @ Aug 31 2005, 02:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-FireFly@Aug 31 2005, 12:29 PM
I'm a Christian, and I believe in both. I don't believe in the big bang theory, and I have my own 'explaination' for why the world looks the way it does, without it taking 60 Billion years to make it look that way. (Or however long evolutionists say it took to make the earth look that way.)

A literal interpretation of the Bible is going overboard. There are some things that 'should' be taken literally by those who believe in it, and others, like the story of creation, should be taken as rough approximations.

If you want to get technical, a creationist 'should' believe that the Earth is about 14000 years old. 7000 years for creation, (one per 'day' in the Bible,) and 7000 years for destruction, which we should be nearing the Revelation shortly.

Here's a question for you all who don't believe:

Should the events depicted in the Book of Revelation actually occur, would you then believe?

I'm a Christian and I believe in the Big Bang Theory and the subsequent theory for the way the cosmos develop. One problem I have with the literal interpretation of the 7 day Creation theory is ... why 7 days? If God is completely all powerful why did it take him 6 days and why did he have to rest on the 7th day? If God is god then he should have snapped his fingers and it all would have been done. To me it points to a more allegorical (ie. dumbed down) explanation of evolution for vastly less scientifically advanced people.

To Cheese: Are you saying Christians have to either believe the Bible entirely or reject it entirely? Didn't I read someone else talk about the importance of free thought somewhere in this thread??
I think it's called critical thinking. [/b][/quote]
No Peter...I didnt say that...

Generally free thought is something that evolutionists would use...obviously as a Christian you have the "blueprint" in hand with your bible. Why would you need to think when everything is laid out for you in black and white?
Thats the problem isnt it? If even you cannot take the bible and its literal meaning how on earth do you suppose you are going to try to get your own kids to believe in it? Its hypocritical...nothing more.

[Skyceman]

Religion and politics should be left off the off-topic boards for the reasons shown above.

[Hakan]

Saying the theory of evolution is a fact is wrong. No theories can be facts and evolution, while compellilng is still just a theory.

I'm not saying that evolution is false as I believe in it and am an ardent christian loathing agnostic but it's important not to sound exactly like the people you criticize, Cow et. all.

http://www.denverpost.com/guestcommentary/ci_2934344

That said, I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster Theory.

[Frank the Tank]

Originally posted by 89revival+Aug 31 2005, 01:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (89revival @ Aug 31 2005, 01:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

And if monkeys flew out of my ass would you beleive I was a wizard?

Solid contribution [/b][/quote]
About as solid as "see you in the pit" I'd say.

[89revival]

I too am a Christian and am firmly against "The Big Bang" theory...I do however believe that things evolve and that God plays a part in evolution......if you've ever read the bible or studied its contents then you'd know mankind thinking they know it all is discussed. Talks of man becoming over confident in him/herself and being able to succeed in life minus God. It talks particularily about having the mindset of "i'm a good person, i lead a good life" and that "that should be enough".

Evolution may offer some piece of mind for the time being but not much beyond that...........belief in God and faith in his existence offers far, far more.....personally I like to think that there is a bigger reason for me being here other then because the old chemicals aligned 900 billion cagillion trimillion light years ago.

Just doesn't do it for me, i find it easier to humble myself and trust that this huge mass of earth was put here in a perfect setting to allow life to exist and progress by someone/thing far larger than us.

Look how complex the human body is, the human mind, reproduction.......you can't see the air you breathe but you trust that it is there don't you?

Prove that it's there.

[Cheese]

Originally posted by Hakan@Aug 31 2005, 03:06 PM
Saying the theory of evolution is a fact is wrong. No theories can be facts and evolution, while compellilng is still just a theory.

I'm not saying that evolution is false as I believe in it and am an ardent christian loathing agnostic but it's important not to sound exactly like the people you criticize, Cow et. all.

http://www.denverpost.com/guestcommentary/ci_2934344

That said, I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster Theory.

ROFLMAO Hakan! Im more of a believer in the Flying Spaghetti Monster than anything else! Sign me up!
An ardent Christian and loathing Agnostic! Yeesh Id like to sit back and watch the battle of alter egos one night after a bottle of Tequila!

[Hakan]

personally I like to think that there is a bigger reason for me being here other then...

Like what? Arguing on message boards and playing nintendo?

Argh, must remain civil....

[Frank the Tank]

Originally posted by 89revival@Aug 31 2005, 02:14 PM
I too am a Christian and am firmly against "The Big Bang" theory...I do however believe that things evolve and that God plays a part in evolution......if you've ever read the bible or studied its contents then you'd know mankind thinking they know it all is discussed. Talks of man becoming over confident in him/herself and being able to succeed in life minus God. It talks particularily about having the mindset of "i'm a good person, i lead a good life" and that "that should be enough".

Evolution may offer some piece of mind for the time being but not much beyond that...........belief in God and faith in his existence offers far, far more.....personally I like to think that there is a bigger reason for me being here other then because the old chemicals aligned 900 billion cagillion trimillion light years ago.

Just doesn't do it for me, i find it easier to humble myself and trust that this huge mass of earth was put here in a perfect setting to allow life to exist and progress by someone/thing far larger than us.

Look how complex the human body is, the human mind, reproduction.......you can't see the air you breathe but you trust that it is there don't you?

Prove that it's there.

Or all of that happening is mere coincidence and as a result, here we are. Why is that so hard to beleive? Its as believable as some all-empowing "god" snapping his/her fingers and creating everything.

And why can't this life be it? I love life, I'd choose to live forever if I could. All of its ups and downs, the good times and the bad....why does there have to be more beyond all of this?

[RougeUnderoos]

Interesting thing on CNN today.
Humans and chimps have evolved separately since splitting from a common ancestor about 6 million years ago, and their DNA remains highly similar -- about 96 percent to almost 99 percent identical, depending on how the comparison is made.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/08/31...s.ap/index.html

Now I've got a question for those who don't believe in evolution...

When you see things like this in the mainstream media (assuming you listen to the news, read the paper, that kind of thing) what is your immediate reaction? Do you think "that's just wrong" or is there another reaction?

These kinds of things come up all the time. Not just monkeys of course. There are plenty of things. For example you could hear on the news "scientists discovered a new star 10 million light years away" or you might read "the fossil discovered near Drumheller is believed to be approximately 125 million years old" in the Calgary Herald.

Is it really frustrating? I would think it would be.

[Cheese]

Originally posted by 89revival@Aug 31 2005, 03:14 PM
I too am a Christian and am firmly against "The Big Bang" theory...I do however believe that things evolve and that God plays a part in evolution......if you've ever read the bible or studied its contents then you'd know mankind thinking they know it all is discussed. Talks of man becoming over confident in him/herself and being able to succeed in life minus God. It talks particularily about having the mindset of "i'm a good person, i lead a good life" and that "that should be enough".

Evolution may offer some piece of mind for the time being but not much beyond that...........belief in God and faith in his existence offers far, far more.....personally I like to think that there is a bigger reason for me being here other then because the old chemicals aligned 900 billion cagillion trimillion light years ago.

Just doesn't do it for me, i find it easier to humble myself and trust that this huge mass of earth was put here in a perfect setting to allow life to exist and progress by someone/thing far larger than us.

Look how complex the human body is, the human mind, reproduction.......you can't see the air you breathe but you trust that it is there don't you?

Prove that it's there.

Prove the air is there? Wow! That is supposed to change my mind about whether to believe or not?
How about you show us the microscopic bacteria that Scientists found and helped turn into things like...oh...Penecillin?

[Hakan]

Anyone seen that documentary called Stupidity?

The basic definition they come up with, amidst a myriad of different ideas, is that stupidity is a plain refusal of valid arguments or ideas which runs counter to previously held belief of dogma.

[Cheese]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos@Aug 31 2005, 03:20 PM
Interesting thing on CNN today.
Humans and chimps have evolved separately since splitting from a common ancestor about 6 million years ago, and their DNA remains highly similar -- about 96 percent to almost 99 percent identical, depending on how the comparison is made.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/08/31...s.ap/index.html

Now I've got a question for those who don't believe in evolution...

When you see things like this in the mainstream media (assuming you listen to the news, read the paper, that kind of thing) what is your immediate reaction? Do you think "that's just wrong" or is there another reaction?

These kinds of things come up all the time. Not just monkeys of course. There are plenty of things. For example you could hear on the news "scientists discovered a new star 10 million light years away" or you might read "the fossil discovered near Drumheller is believed to be approximately 125 million years old" in the Calgary Herald.

Is it really frustrating? I would think it would be.

Creationists often claim that they have nothing against science in general or that they rely on the scientific method as much as anyone, and yet they arbitrarily reject science when they dislike its results for subjective reasons. The fact of the matter is that evolution is a product of the scientific method, and it is hypocritical to accept one and reject the other.
Creationists believe Mr Rouge that this earth can only be 6-10,000 years old so anything science does to disprove this is categorically ignored.

[peter12]

Originally posted by Frank the Tank+Aug 31 2005, 01:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Frank the Tank @ Aug 31 2005, 01:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-89revival@Aug 31 2005, 02:14 PM
I too am a Christian and am firmly against "The Big Bang" theory...I do however believe that things evolve and that God plays a part in evolution......if you've ever read the bible or studied its contents then you'd know mankind thinking they know it all is discussed. Talks of man becoming over confident in him/herself and being able to succeed in life minus God. It talks particularily about having the mindset of "i'm a good person, i lead a good life" and that "that should be enough".

Evolution may offer some piece of mind for the time being but not much beyond that...........belief in God and faith in his existence offers far, far more.....personally I like to think that there is a bigger reason for me being here other then because the old chemicals aligned 900 billion cagillion trimillion light years ago.

Just doesn't do it for me, i find it easier to humble myself and trust that this huge mass of earth was put here in a perfect setting to allow life to exist and progress by someone/thing far larger than us.

Look how complex the human body is, the human mind, reproduction.......you can't see the air you breathe but you trust that it is there don't you?

Prove that it's there.

Or all of that happening is mere coincidence and as a result, here we are. Why is that so hard to beleive? Its as believable as some all-empowing "god" snapping his/her fingers and creating everything.

And why can't this life be it? I love life, I'd choose to live forever if I could. All of its ups and downs, the good times and the bad....why does there have to be more beyond all of this? [/b][/quote]
If you want to bring up scientific arguments... strong scientific evidence points to life not being a mere freakish coincidence.

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by Hakan@Aug 31 2005, 12:06 PM
Saying the theory of evolution is a fact is wrong. No theories can be facts and evolution, while compellilng is still just a theory.

I'm not saying that evolution is false as I believe in it and am an ardent christian loathing agnostic but it's important not to sound exactly like the people you criticize, Cow et. all.

http://www.denverpost.com/guestcommentary/ci_2934344

That said, I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster Theory.

I'll repeat for the third time:

The concept that biological entities can adapt and mutate through natural selection - the strong winning out over the weak - is amply proven and a fact.

The Denver Post tried to use swans to disprove it while I had already stated above we're not arguing whether or not dinosaurs turned into birds.

Its simply a demonstrated fact that biological entities can adapt and mutate through natural selection. Within that concept, you can certainly debate theories as to the mutuations of swans and dinosaurs.

Its such an obvious fact that opponents of evolution seem to accept it and have attempted to design a secondary explanation around it, that of "intelligent design," explaining that mutations and adaptations are part of God's plan.

In other words, Christians evolving to fit the facts yet again, an admirable example of evolution in itself.

Cowperson

[Cheese]

Originally posted by peter12+Aug 31 2005, 03:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (peter12 @ Aug 31 2005, 03:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Or all of that happening is mere coincidence and as a result, here we are. Why is that so hard to beleive? Its as believable as some all-empowing "god" snapping his/her fingers and creating everything.

And why can't this life be it? I love life, I'd choose to live forever if I could. All of its ups and downs, the good times and the bad....why does there have to be more beyond all of this?

If you want to bring up scientific arguments... strong scientific evidence points to life not being a mere freakish coincidence. [/b][/quote]
Oh please enlighten us Peter...Im game for a challenge!

[Hakan]

Creationists believe Mr Rouge that this earth can only be 6-10,000 years old so anything science does to disprove this is categorically ignored.

Cheese this can be easily explained with my theory:

What these people don’t understand is that He built the world to make us think the earth is older than it really is. For example, a scientist may perform a carbon-dating process on an artifact. He finds that approximately 75% of the Carbon-14 has decayed by electron emission to Nitrogen-14, and infers that this artifact is approximately 10,000 years old, as the half-life of Carbon-14 appears to be 5,730 years. But what our scientist does not realize is that every time he makes a measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results with His Noodly Appendage. We have numerous texts that describe in detail how this can be possible and the reasons why He does this. He is of course invisible and can pass through normal matter with ease.

[peter12]

Originally posted by Cheese+Aug 31 2005, 01:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cheese @ Aug 31 2005, 01:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

If you want to bring up scientific arguments... strong scientific evidence points to life not being a mere freakish coincidence.

Oh please enlighten us Peter...Im game for a challenge! [/b][/quote]
Not in the case of there being clear evidence of an intelligent being creating human life on this planet.
But there is evidence of life occuring anywhere the right conditions are present. Certain molecules exposed to light in certain elements at a certain temperature most likely will start a chain of evolution.

If it can occur anywhere it does point to something different than just a random coincidence.

[Cheese]

Originally posted by Cowperson+Aug 31 2005, 03:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cowperson @ Aug 31 2005, 03:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Hakan@Aug 31 2005, 12:06 PM
Saying the theory of evolution is a fact is wrong. No theories can be facts and evolution, while compellilng is still just a theory.

I'm not saying that evolution is false as I believe in it and am an ardent christian loathing agnostic but it's important not to sound exactly like the people you criticize, Cow et. all.

http://www.denverpost.com/guestcommentary/ci_2934344

That said, I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster Theory.

I'll repeat for the third time:

The concept that biological entities can adapt and mutate through natural selection - the strong winning out over the weak - is amply proven and a fact.

The Denver Post tried to use swans to disprove it while I had already stated above we're not arguing whether or not dinosaurs turned into birds.

Its simply a demonstrated fact that biological entities can adapt and mutate through natural selection. Within that concept, you can certainly debate theories as to the mutuations of swans and dinosaurs.

Its such an obvious fact that opponents of evolution seem to accept it and have attempted to design a secondary explanation around it, that of "intelligent design," explaining that mutations and adaptations are part of God's plan.

In other words, Christians evolving to fit the facts yet again, an admirable example of evolution in itself.

Cowperson [/b][/quote]
and to add to Cows post...

Creationists claim that "common design" or other models could have led to some of these things happening just as well, but "common design" is an ad hoc invention with no explanatory power, tacked onto the creation model as an afterthought in a dishonest attempt to take credit for the work of others. Unlike evolution, creation cannot suggest new avenues of research; it starts with the Bible and goes nowhere. The creationists have drawn an entirely arbitrary and artificial "good science, bad science" distinction in which science is allowable as long as it protects them from illness or puts food on their plates (which they thank God for by saying grace), but unacceptable when it ventures into areas where religion has already staked a claim, such as the origin of life. This is not only hypocritical, but dangerous, since it stifles progress. All science is purely theoretical at first, leading to practical applications only later. Who is to say that scientific investigation of the things creationists would rather we not know will not result in new innovations just as extraordinary?

[Cheese]

Originally posted by Hakan@Aug 31 2005, 03:31 PM

Cheese this can be easily explained with my theory:

What these people don’t understand is that He built the world to make us think the earth is older than it really is. For example, a scientist may perform a carbon-dating process on an artifact. He finds that approximately 75% of the Carbon-14 has decayed by electron emission to Nitrogen-14, and infers that this artifact is approximately 10,000 years old, as the half-life of Carbon-14 appears to be 5,730 years. But what our scientist does not realize is that every time he makes a measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results with His Noodly Appendage. We have numerous texts that describe in detail how this can be possible and the reasons why He does this. He is of course invisible and can pass through normal matter with ease.

um...so what your saying is he created a lie...to do what? Keep us in suspense?
Ya thatll do it...LOL...that explains everything!