SI Article - Flickering Flames have ideal captain in steely Mark Giordano

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Teroy outs himself as a troll, good stuff

[Badgers Nose]

You can't captain goalies out of bad slumps.

Avg sv% and Flames are a wildcard. Slightly better and they are fighting LA for the division.

Not a perfect team but they play the style they were built for pretty well. Having Gio leading rushes is a big part of that.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

You can't captain goalies out of bad slumps.

Avg sv% and Flames are a wildcard. Slightly better and they are fighting LA for the division.

Not a perfect team but they play the style they were built for pretty well. Having Gio leading rushes is a big part of that.

Giordano is effective when he skates with the puck, no question. At the beginning of the season and recently, he seems to just pivot and attempt long bomb passes more than any other d-man.

He's still effective on the PP, but the PK suffers when he's sitting in the box.

I think it's fair to question the contract as well, given he's got one career playoff point and the expectation is that he will captain the Flames to contender status.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

I think it's fair to question the contract as well, given he's got one career playoff point

Now that's how to cherry-pick stats. Be very very careful not to let anybody mention that Giordano has only been in four career playoff games, all in his rookie year.

For extra debate points, cover up the fact that he was in Russia during the 2008 playoffs (where he scored 6 points in 9 playoff games), injured in 2009 and 2015, and his team did not make the playoffs from 2010 to 2014. If anyone is allowed to mention these details, why, it might look like Giordano doesn't suck. And that would be a terrible thing to happen.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Now that's how to cherry-pick stats. Be very very careful not to let anybody mention that Giordano has only been in four career playoff games, all in his rookie year.

For extra debate points, cover up the fact that he was in Russia during the 2008 playoffs (where he scored 6 points in 9 playoff games), injured in 2009 and 2015, and his team did not make the playoffs from 2010 to 2014. If anyone is allowed to mention these details, why, it might look like Giordano doesn't suck. And that would be a terrible thing to happen.

I never said he sucked man. I said he's got one playoff point, which isn't wrong. I guess I'm just curious as to how he's going to lead this team to the promised land when he's either a) hurt, or b) team isn't in the playoffs.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

I never said he sucked man. I said he's got one playoff point, which isn't wrong. I guess I'm just curious as to how he's going to lead this team to the promised land when he's either a) hurt, or b) team isn't in the playoffs.

Then you should have come out and said that in the first place instead of trying to mislead people into thinking he can't perform in the playoffs because he has only one playoff point.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

I never said he sucked man. I said he's got one playoff point, which isn't wrong. I guess I'm just curious as to how he's going to lead this team to the promised land when he's either a) hurt, or b) team isn't in the playoffs.

You implied that his contract is bad because he has only one playoff point. That's a complete non sequitur.

Now, how is he going to ‘lead this team to the promised land’? Here's a simple lesson for you:

The times when he was injured in the playoffs, and those years from 2010 to 2014 when the team missed the playoffs, are in this place that we call THE PAST. The thing about the past is, we have definite information about what happened there.

The times when he may be able to contribute in the playoffs are in what we call THE FUTURE. We don't have any information about what happens there. Maybe he will turn out to contribute, and maybe he won't; we don't know yet, and neither do you. Our information about THE PAST is not information about THE FUTURE. As they say in the disclaimer for investment ads, ‘PAST performance is no guarantee of FUTURE results.’

In this case, PAST performance does not tell us anything, because all we have to go on is that Giordano did not do a lot in the playoffs as a rookie defenceman playing occasional minutes on the third pairing. He wasn't even a full-time NHLer that year – played 5 regular-season and 3 playoff games in the AHL. His performance that year certainly gave no indication of the results he has achieved since in the regular season. Why should it indicate anything about his results in future playoffs?

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Buff

Then you should have come out and said that in the first place instead of trying to mislead people into thinking he can't perform in the playoffs because he has only one playoff point.

Sure, it's yet to be seen if he's able to become a major cog in a deep playoff run, so that's fair. The goaltending debacle isn't his fault either. It's a shame he's been healthy all season and the team is in the basement.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's a bad contract no matter how you spin it. It's tolerable for likely the first 2 seasons of it but the back 3/4 years are going to likely cost the Flames retaining a player or two they would have liked to keep.

You claim that it's a bad contract as an absolute fact, and then use events that haven't occurred yet, starting in the 2018/19 season as evidence to support this fact.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

You implied that his contract is bad because he has only one playoff point. That's a complete non sequitur.

Now, how is he going to ‘lead this team to the promised land’? Here's a simple lesson for you:

The times when he was injured in the playoffs, and those years from 2010 to 2014 when the team missed the playoffs, are in this place that we call THE PAST. The thing about the past is, we have definite information about what happened there.

The times when he may be able to contribute in the playoffs are in what we call THE FUTURE. We don't have any information about what happens there. Maybe he will turn out to contribute, and maybe he won't; we don't know yet, and neither do you. Our information about THE PAST is not information about THE FUTURE. As they say in the disclaimer for investment ads, ‘PAST performance is no guarantee of FUTURE results.’

In this case, PAST performance does not tell us anything, because all we have to go on is that Giordano did not do a lot in the playoffs as a rookie defenceman playing occasional minutes on the third pairing. He wasn't even a full-time NHLer that year – played 5 regular-season and 3 playoff games in the AHL. His performance that year certainly gave no indication of the results he has achieved since in the regular season. Why should it indicate anything about his results in future playoffs?

I do think his contract is bad because he's essentially got a blank resume in terms of playoff impact. And he's 33 when it kicks in. All I have to go on is the past though, you're right there, I'm not a savant.

Look, it's just my opinion. If posters here aren't allowed to predict things because they can't see the future, there isn't much point in arguing with anything Treliving does. He's always right until he isn't, I guess?

Sorry to rile you up.

[Teroy]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Teroy outs himself as a troll, good stuff

Teroy is not a troll. I was a season ticket holder from day one and remained so till we moved away in 1992. Have remained a loyal Flames follower for all these years and watch every game. Maybe it's you who is the troll.

[King Theo]

Originally Posted by habernac

At exit meetings that year, Hartley and then GM Jay Feaster floated one hypothetical to Flames players: If Iginla was indeed dealt and the captaincy decision was in your hands, who would you name? “If we did 25 player meetings that year, there were 24 year guys who never hesitated and immediately said Gio,” Feaster recalls. “And the 25th guy named himself.”

lol, who was the 25th guy?

Kipper

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

I do think his contract is bad because he's essentially got a blank resume in terms of playoff impact.

OK, this I don't mind. I don't agree, but I don't mind. Before, you were making it look like his resume was not merely blank but actually bad.

[ricardodw]

This is the worst Flames team in the history of the team in Calgary.

There have been 2 of the worst teams out of the top 5-6 all time bad teams with Gio as the captain. The team that picked 4th overall and got Bennett and this years team.

Last year was the most successful Flame Team in a decade. Gio was great last year but almost all of the critical success came with him out of the line up..


I think he is a really good, not great player but the success that accompanies great Captains has not been exhibited by any sort of results.

[sa226]

Lol

[Fire of the Phoenix]

If you think the 2013 lockout team is better than the 2013/14 team, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

This is the worst Flames team in the history of the team in Calgary.

There have been 2 of the worst teams out of the top 5-6 all time bad teams with Gio as the captain. The team that picked 4th overall and got Bennett and this years team.

Last year was the most successful Flame Team in a decade. Gio was great last year but almost all of the critical success came with him out of the line up..


I think he is a really good, not great player but the success that accompanies great Captains has not been exhibited by any sort of results.

I always feel bad for you when people dump on you for your posts. But then I read your posts, and I understand why.

[Vinny01]

This looks like it will be a career year for the captain. Obviously the past 2 seasons he has had a better ppg but 20 goals and 50pts are within reach which is fantastic considering his slow start coming off major injury.

[MarkGio]

You can't apply different standards to the captains. If Iginla was criticized for the losing record of his time, logically Giordano must be as well.

There is no escaping this unless you're willing to accept a logical fallacy, which is an admittance of poor thought

[codynw]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

You can't apply different standards to the captains. If Iginla was criticized for the losing record of his time, logically Giordano must be as well.

There is no escaping this unless you're willing to accept a logical fallacy, which is an admittance of poor thought

Different team expectations.

The team was expected to be good during Iginla's captaincy. Right now the team has a young core in the middle of a rebuild.

I never blamed Iginla anyways, just saying that it would be fair to view them differently.