I like Jakub Nakladal

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by Imported_Aussie

Quoted just your best example to keep the post shorter, but with reference to this and all of your comparable players, Nakladal will not have anywhere near the number of games in this year. Best case scenario - playing every game from now on - he doesn't even get half way to these comparable players. And that best case is far from certain as once Wideman is back, someone needs to sit.

With your reasoning, maybe he needs that further 1 year deal to get enough of a sample of games to be considered alongside these players?

Thats fair, if you completely ignore his entire body of work. If you look at Emelin's numbers pre-NHL, they are very close to Nak's.

As an agent, I would argue that his entire body of work needs to be considered because the organization chose to not play him. It is not Nakladal's fault the organization had to see what else they had in their vets. Nak's has also displayed that if there is a log jam, he can be brought in at any point and play at a high level.

I see where youre coming from tho, i just think an argument could be made either way but you have to consider what he could get as a UFA.

As a UFA, I could see a team throwing 1.5-2M over 2 years easily. Why not us?

You cant look at as "we need the cap to sign our other guys" perspective, you need to look at it from Nakladal's perspective. Especially since he didnt even get a chance to show what hes worth for most of the season.

[neo45]

I really doubt Nakladal can earn 1 mil on the free agent market. If we want him back we can get him back

[Southside]

We have seven NHL D already under contract for next year. Gio, Brodie, Hamilton, Wideman, Smid, Jokipakka and Engelland.

Priority has to be on inking Gaudreau and Monahan to new deals, then signing 2 goaltenders (maybe Ortio is one, hopefully neither Hiller or Ramo). Then if we're to add Nakladal to a deal of substance, we have to shed ourselves of another D because we also need to get someone to play on the right side of Monahan, that will likely be through free agency. So, $1.5 - $2 may sound right for Nakladal, but we have too many other priorities IMO. He likely signs on the cheap, or walks.

[Imported_Aussie]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Thats fair, if you completely ignore his entire body of work. If you look at Emelin's numbers pre-NHL, they are very close to Nak's.

As an agent, I would argue that his entire body of work needs to be considered because the organization chose to not play him. It is not Nakladal's fault the organization had to see what else they had in their vets. Nak's has also displayed that if there is a log jam, he can be brought in at any point and play at a high level.

I see where youre coming from tho, i just think an argument could be made either way but you have to consider what he could get as a UFA.

As a UFA, I could see a team throwing 1.5-2M over 2 years easily. Why not us?

You cant look at as "we need the cap to sign our other guys" perspective, you need to look at it from Nakladal's perspective. Especially since he didnt even get a chance to show what hes worth for most of the season.

I see your point about the body of work, my only contention is the shorter window to assess how well it has translated to the NHL. Looking at the AHL numbers we can see his game has translated well to the smaller ice, but with so few NHL games (and yes, this is not his fault) it is hard to be as certain he is worth a bigger commitment. He is the definition of an "under the radar" signing that a GM tries to pull off, which would either look like genius or be a mistake to bury.

Player decisions regarding value cannot be made in a vacuum - this is why his value to the Flames may have to be closer to 1M, but another organization without significant money tied up in its 5-7D may see him as worth the risk at closer to 2M

Perhaps the truth lies somewhere in between our two positions?


Good debate though - glad this isn't going Lou vs Pat!

[neo45]

Remember people also thought Butler and Shlemko were going to get 3 million

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Thats fair, if you completely ignore his entire body of work. If you look at Emelin's numbers pre-NHL, they are very close to Nak's.

As an agent, I would argue that his entire body of work needs to be considered because the organization chose to not play him. It is not Nakladal's fault the organization had to see what else they had in their vets. Nak's has also displayed that if there is a log jam, he can be brought in at any point and play at a high level.

I see where youre coming from tho, i just think an argument could be made either way but you have to consider what he could get as a UFA.

As a UFA, I could see a team throwing 1.5-2M over 2 years easily. Why not us?

You cant look at as "we need the cap to sign our other guys" perspective, you need to look at it from Nakladal's perspective. Especially since he didnt even get a chance to show what hes worth for most of the season.

The reason for why not us is because of the small sample size of his play. A good example is Adam Pardy, as a UFA he got 2 year $4 million from DAL. It was good for him and his agent, but I am glad it wasn't with the Flames. In my mind the difference between a $1M and a $2M Nakladal is consistency, and 10 games is too short of a time period to demonstrate it.

If you remember a bit of a different situation, this summer was Bouma getting paid on a three year $6.6 million contract. Which seemed like a great contract at the time, but it came with a risk. Now he seems about $1million overpaid. Unfortunately, looking the Flames salary structure it is those contracts that seem to be hurting the Flames and not the core contracts.

Anyways, in my eyes Nakladal didn't show me enough that he can outperform our other prospects in the system(yet) by $1million.

[polak]

He has shown, both on the farm and in the NHL that he is currently our best defensive "prospect" not playing in the NHL already.

I don't want to play a worse Wotherspoon simply because he's 6 years younger.

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by Imported_Aussie

I see your point about the body of work, my only contention is the shorter window to assess how well it has translated to the NHL. Looking at the AHL numbers we can see his game has translated well to the smaller ice, but with so few NHL games (and yes, this is not his fault) it is hard to be as certain he is worth a bigger commitment. He is the definition of an "under the radar" signing that a GM tries to pull off, which would either look like genius or be a mistake to bury.

Player decisions regarding value cannot be made in a vacuum - this is why his value to the Flames may have to be closer to 1M, but another organization without significant money tied up in its 5-7D may see him as worth the risk at closer to 2M

Perhaps the truth lies somewhere in between our two positions?


Good debate though - glad this isn't going Lou vs Pat!

Agreed, great discussion. Thats my thoughts as well. My concern is the losing him for nothing, which perhaps thats what the Flames deserve for how they handled the situation in bringing him over.. I dunno, talking out of my ass at this point.

Originally Posted by neo45

Remember people also thought Butler and Shlemko were going to get 3 million

Yikes, I dont recall being part of that convo. Thats said, after his ELC he received a deal worth 1.3M X 2 for 2012-2014. After he sucked on that deal, he took what he could get.

Originally Posted by gvitaly

The reason for why not us is because of the small sample size of his play. A good example is Adam Pardy, as a UFA he got 2 year $4 million from DAL. It was good for him and his agent, but I am glad it wasn't with the Flames. In my mind the difference between a $1M and a $2M Nakladal is consistency, and 10 games is too short of a time period to demonstrate it.

If you remember a bit of a different situation, this summer was Bouma getting paid on a three year $6.6 million contract. Which seemed like a great contract at the time, but it came with a risk. Now he seems about $1million overpaid. Unfortunately, looking the Flames salary structure it is those contracts that seem to be hurting the Flames and not the core contracts.

Anyways, in my eyes Nakladal didn't show me enough that he can outperform our other prospects in the system(yet) by $1million.

I dont think anyone can say Bouma's deal is bad after this year. The guy has been hurt most of the season and is still trying to get up to speed. This season is a write-off for Lance. I will reserve judging his deal after next season.

Keep in mind tho guys, hes 27 years old. I dont think there is a ton of risk for him to regress. He is pretty much what he is at this point in his career. I agree we dont know the ceiling, but I think its fair to assume we are seeing his floor at the NHL level. Is he playing for a contract, sure. After a deal is there a chance he wont play with as much desire? Sure. But the skill, IQ, own zone prowess is showing now. 10 games or 100, I understand its a much different risk, but unfortunately, thats where the higher risk comes into play. If he was playing like this and putting up points pro-rated to 82 game season, is it not fair to suggest he could be in the $3-4M mark?

Lastly, most 5-6 Dmen in the NHL +25 yo, are making $2M+ a season as it stands now? No?

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

I dont think anyone can say Bouma's deal is bad after this year. The guy has been hurt most of the season and is still trying to get up to speed. This season is a write-off for Lance. I will reserve judging his deal after next season.

Keep in mind tho guys, hes 27 years old. I dont think there is a ton of risk for him to regress. He is pretty much what he is at this point in his career. I agree we dont know the ceiling, but I think its fair to assume we are seeing his floor at the NHL level. Is he playing for a contract, sure. After a deal is there a chance he wont play with as much desire? Sure. But the skill, IQ, own zone prowess is showing now. 10 games or 100, I understand its a much different risk, but unfortunately, thats where the higher risk comes into play. If he was playing like this and putting up points pro-rated to 82 game season, is it not fair to suggest he could be in the $3-4M mark?

Lastly, most 5-6 Dmen in the NHL +25 yo, are making $2M+ a season as it stands now? No?

Regarding Bouma, it is not that the deal is terrible, but suddenly it seems like it is one year too long.

Perhaps I am just skeptical about signing unproven defenseman with the Flames, from signings like Babchuck.

The Calgary Flames re-signed defenceman Anton Babchuk to a two-year contract extension Monday worth US$5 million.
The 27-year-old played in 65 games with Calgary last season after coming over in a trade from Carolina along with Tom Kostopoulos.
Babchuk totalled 11 goals and 24 assists and was a team high plus-14 with the Flames. He added eight points (3-5) in 17 games with Carolina.
The deal will pay Babchuk $2.5 million a year.
"Anton Babchuk is a sound positional player on the back line and perhaps one of our most adept defenceman at pinching down the wall to keep the play alive in the offensive zone," Flames general manager Jay Feaster said in a release.
"Anton makes a good first pass, his shot is a big weapon for us on the power play, and he contributes to our offence without sacrificing his defensive responsibilities."

I still cringe remembering that signing. For me Nakladal is still a 6th/7th defenseman, maybe that is why we have the difference in opinion.

[Swayze11]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

So he's done everything he can to prove himself in Stockton, and has done everything he can to prove himself during his brief NHL stint..

That's almost a full year of body work not to mention his impressive play in Europe allowing him to sign in North America in the first place.

He's 28 years old and it's pretty evident what his skill level is. This isn't some unproven prospect.

And this isn't ogling over a player just because he scored one nice goal. He's looked like an NHLer since game 1. Really has been a seamless transition and that's a very promising sign.

You are misinterpreting what I said. Not once did I say he was not worthy of an extension. I just think we need to pump the breaks a bit here. He has played 10 NHL games so my comment was handing him a 3 year, 2 mill a year contract is pretty crazy at this point.

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by Swayze11

You are misinterpreting what I said. Not once did I say he was not worthy of an extension. I just think we need to pump the breaks a bit here. He has played 10 NHL games so my comment was handing him a 3 year, 2 mill a year contract is pretty crazy at this point.

And that's completely understandable.

As is the Babchuk concern.

Problem is, he has a valid argument for more money. He's got what, 25 games left to show that this is who he is. In that event, if he doesn't show signs of fatigue and regression, do you sign him to 1.5M with a bit of term, and I'm assuming at his age, that's going to be a bit more of a priority.

Or do you let him walk into free agency with a pat on the back and a handshake?

I understand from a club perspective that 1.5-2 m per over 2-3 years is scary when we don't have JG and Monny locked up long term yet but thats none of Nakladal's concern when looking at comps of players in his age group and experience vs production.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Why? Is he your fav player?

Millennials are too lazy for proper grammar.

[CroFlames]

He's already getting paid $800k. If you bump that up to $1MM or so and give him two years, that would be fair for all parties I think.

Tradeable contract if need be, but high reward if he continues to improve.

[AC]

Yep, even a 1-way contract with almost no salary bump might do it.

[1_Flames_Fan]

Nakladal has been good but lets wait a bit until we open the wallet. I'd be fine at around 1 million per for 2 years maybe, anything more than that is risky.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Considering Nakladal is on a two-way, and has only played a handful of games in the NHL thus far, I would think the Flames approach it as such.

2 million would be an over-payment off the bat. Do I think he could play up to that contract? I definitely think so. Up until now, he is still relatively unproven and hasn't earned a bigger payday.

Now if he wants 2 million, I would counter if I was the Flames and offer a 2-way at 2 million, and $50,000.

The more logical approach is for him to sign a 'show me' contract. Turn the two-way into a one-way, and bump him up slightly to around the one million mark. Gauge how he performs throughout the year, and pay him a 2 year (maybe 3 year) based off of that.

He has been good - I have really enjoyed watching him play and think he has more potential than just a 6th defencemen - but let's see what he does over the course of an entire season. He may still be riding on pure adrenalin after all. Definitely like him thus far, and I would assume the Flames like him as well and will offer him a contract.

[polak]

Alright. This guy is better than Russell. Is he a legit middle pairing guy? I think so....