Man who beheaded fellow bus passenger wants to live on his own

[spuzzum]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

You don't see any sadness or tragedy in the lives of schizophrenics?

For the ones who decapitate heads off an individual - absolutely not. I feel sadness for the victim and their family.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Dealing with paranoid schizophrenia might be the worst thing I can think of.

My great uncle suffered from it. He did ok with his meds until his mother died. Then he abandoned them and became a homeless person. He would show up at various relative's homes from time to time. The last time I saw him was in 91 or 92, I remember because we had a discussion about hockey, more specifically Mario Lemieux. That was the only coherent thing I recall as he was speaking to imaginary people and singing the rest of the time.

I would be very wary of this individual not being monitored pretty much forever.

[GGG]

To me he should be released with two restrictions

1) is daily monitoring for medication which it appears they are doing
2) would be an ankle monitor so if he doesn't take his daily meds police can track him down and imprison him.

The problem being is that people on these kinds of meds can start to think their cured and don't need the meds and the side affects of the meds aren't great so you stop taking them and fall off the wagon. So as long as we have a system in place to be sure medication. Is taken and find him if he goes off the meds he should be let back into society.

[Locke]

You know, I'm not going to hop on the 'screw the mentally ill' train but people have valid reasons for concern in this case.

Vincent Li was already diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic, he was already on medication and then he was released.

Upon that release he committed a very serious crime.

This sounds a lot like 'rinse, wash and repeat.'

Hes been diagnosed again. He is being medicated again. Hes likely going to be released again.

We cant say that we havent seen this play before.

Now they say they're going to check up on him every day for the rest of his life. Does it not seem like it would make more sense to maintain him in an institution?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Locke

You know, I'm not going to hop on the 'screw the mentally ill' train but people have valid reasons for concern in this case.

Vincent Li was already diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic, he was already on medication and then he was released.

Upon that release he committed a very serious crime.

This sounds a lot like 'rinse, wash and repeat.'

Hes been diagnosed again. He is being medicated again. Hes likely going to be released again.

We cant say that we havent seen this play before.

Now they say they're going to check up on him every day for the rest of his life. Does it not seem like it would make more sense to maintain him in an institution?

It's likely cheaper to check on him daily than to instituitionlize him. So provided you can mitigate the risk it makes sense to have him live on his own.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by GGG

To me he should be released with two restrictions

1) is daily monitoring for medication which it appears they are doing
2) would be an ankle monitor so if he doesn't take his daily meds police can track him down and imprison him.

The problem being is that people on these kinds of meds can start to think their cured and don't need the meds and the side affects of the meds aren't great so you stop taking them and fall off the wagon. So as long as we have a system in place to be sure medication. Is taken and find him if he goes off the meds he should be let back into society.

I would assume the daily visit would co-ordinate with his taking of medication, no?

I don't know what the dosage is for this type of medication/issue, but if it is once a day then the face to face meeting daily should/could include pill eating.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GGG

It's likely cheaper to check on him daily than to instituitionlize him. So provided you can mitigate the risk it makes sense to have him live on his own.

Financially, yes, but there are other costs that have to be considered too.

[Cyclops]

Originally Posted by T@T

Whats worst than cutting off someones head? 2 heads?

Name one worst crime where the person got out 8 years later.

I can name you hundreds. How long did Karla Homolka spend in jail? Graham James? Those are 2 high profile cases. Did you want to have a look at any crime involving children and see what punishment the criminal got?

I deem those worse than beheading an adult on a bus while passengers watch.

[Cyclops]

In 1988, Maple Leaf Gardens equipment manager Gordon Stuckless admitted to molesting 24 boys he had lured into the storied arena – and was handed a sentence of only two years less a#day.

Would that be worse? How many people were effected by this?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Locke

You know, I'm not going to hop on the 'screw the mentally ill' train but people have valid reasons for concern in this case.

Vincent Li was already diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic, he was already on medication and then he was released.

Upon that release he committed a very serious crime.

This sounds a lot like 'rinse, wash and repeat.'

Hes been diagnosed again. He is being medicated again. Hes likely going to be released again.

We cant say that we havent seen this play before.

Now they say they're going to check up on him every day for the rest of his life. Does it not seem like it would make more sense to maintain him in an institution?

Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that he hadn't been diagnosed and medicated prior to the incident.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I would assume the daily visit would co-ordinate with his taking of medication, no?

I don't know what the dosage is for this type of medication/issue, but if it is once a day then the face to face meeting daily should/could include pill eating.

Yep that's my understanding. My only concern is if he doesn't show up for the meeting they need a way to find him.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that he hadn't been diagnosed and medicated prior to the incident.

I thought Locke was right.

My memory is hazy, but I thought he had some issues before this, but was getting treatment/medication, then when off them.


I am almost 100% sure he was diagnosed with schizophrenia pre-attack.

[Fuzz]

So if he did go voluntarily off the meds, which were presumably keeping him of sound mind, couldn't the argument be made that he was in control of that choice, thus making him criminally responsible?

It would kind of be like me deciding when I'm sober that I won't drive drunk, but then I get wasted and drive drunk. My bad decision is the starting drinking, becuase that leads to poor choices. Obviously the drunk driver is held responsible.

[pylon]

I don't think a lot of people understand you can sympathize with Li's plight, acknowledge his illness is real, and feel bad for the man.... But still hold the belief that he shouldn't be released.

It's a terrible situation for all involved including Li, but in my opinion, the risk is too great letting him out. If it was possible to permanently cure him, without the reliance of him voluntarily taking drugs, I could come around to the idea. But there is nothing stopping him from vanishing in the night and hitch hiking away to parts unknown.

It seems to me, Li is being given all the consideration here, and the public is not in the equation.

And too answer one posters question about first responders.... One of them commited suicide a couple years back from the PTSD, and apparently another one has been on an extended leave for coming on 4 years now. If that is the effect Li's actions had on professionals that are trained to deal with stuff like this, imagine what the regular Joe and Mary bus riders are dealing with? At least Li doesn't remember any if this, or has a vague, cloudy memory of it. He's the lucky one in that sense. This man, regardless of his illness, has shattered numerous lives, and indirectly killed a second victim.

[Cyclops]

Originally Posted by pylon

I don't think a lot of people understand you can sympathize with Li's plight, acknowledge his illness is real, and feel bad for the man.... But still hold the belief that he shouldn't be released.

It's a terrible situation for all involved including Li, but in my opinion, the risk is too great letting him out. If it was possible to permanently cure him, without the reliance of him voluntarily taking drugs, I could come around to the idea. But there is nothing stopping him from vanishing in the night and hitch hiking away to parts unknown.

It seems to me, Li is being given all the consideration here, and the public is not in the equation.

And too answer one posters question about first responders.... One of them commited suicide a couple years back from the PTSD, and apparently another one has been on an extended leave for coming on 4 years now. If that is the effect Li's actions had on professionals that are trained to deal with stuff like this, imagine what the regular Joe and Mary bus riders are dealing with? At least Li doesn't remember any if this, or has a vague, cloudy memory of it. He's the lucky one in that sense. This man, regardless of his illness, has shattered numerous lives, and indirectly killed a second victim.

Can you not make the same argument for anyone that is being released from prison? Any one of the murderers, rapists, child molesters...could disappear into the night and reoffend, couldn't they? So why are we not clamoring to keep them locked away and terrified when they are released?

I'm not following the argument to keep him locked up. If the doctors can safely say that he is not a threat to the public as long as he takes his meds and he will be monitored then it shouldn't be a problem.

[spuzzum]

Originally Posted by Cyclops

Can you not make the same argument for anyone that is being released from prison? Any one of the murderers, rapists, child molesters...could disappear into the night and reoffend, couldn't they? So why are we not clamoring to keep them locked away and terrified when they are released?

I'm not following the argument to keep him locked up. If the doctors can safely say that he is not a threat to the public as long as he takes his meds and he will be monitored then it shouldn't be a problem.

This is a very interesting debate and complicated answer with valid points on both sides.

I wonder how many doctors would sign release papers if there was one added responsibility: if the patient re-offends, the doctor is going to jail along side the re-offender for a similar offense. I get nothing in life is certain, but perhaps a degree of responsibility for the doctor might entice them to think long and hard before releasing this type of individual back into the mainstream population.

[puckedoff]

Originally Posted by Cyclops

Can you not make the same argument for anyone that is being released from prison? Any one of the murderers, rapists, child molesters...could disappear into the night and reoffend, couldn't they? So why are we not clamoring to keep them locked away and terrified when they are released?

I'm not following the argument to keep him locked up. If the doctors can safely say that he is not a threat to the public as long as he takes his meds and he will be monitored then it shouldn't be a problem.

I don't know if its the same as releasing a murderer/rapist etc because they would be at least conciously making the choice to re-offend, where as in Li's case it seems like he could just 'have an episode' and be out of control and go ahead and cut some blokes head off. And eat peices of it. I think that is what worries people, and I can empathize with that.

[Cole436]

I've had a lot of time to think about this over the years and I support the decision to reintegrate him into society. I do think he needs to be consistently monitored, and I'm not as sure I'm supportive of him living by himself. But he deserves the right to have a chance at society.

[Cyclops]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

I don't know if its the same as releasing a murderer/rapist etc because they would be at least conciously making the choice to re-offend, where as in Li's case it seems like he could just 'have an episode' and be out of control and go ahead and cut some blokes head off. And eat peices of it. I think that is what worries people, and I can empathize with that.

He could have an "episode" if he stops taking his medication. A murderer/ rapist that is likely to reoffend is still let out into the community after serving his/her sentence. Many of these people are also suffering from some for of mental illness as well.

This is the problem I have with not releasing him. A guy like below has publicly stated that he is going to reoffend yet he is released into the public anyway. Li has doctors saying that he is fine as long as he is on his medication and people are willing to monitor that he is taking his meds yet people are scared.

I'm frightened of the guy in this article because it's a matter of when he will attack another kid, I'm not afraid of Li at all.

[Cyclops]

http://whosyourneighbour.ca/id26.html