Johnny an MVP finalist (if the Flames make the playoffs)?

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Yes, that's what they say. But let's face it......both of those awards are for the best player, just voted on by different groups.

edit: Pepsi took the words out of my mouth.

And that's incredibly dumb, because 'valuable' and 'best' aren't synonyms.

Sure, the iPhone is a valuable phone, but it's not close to being the best phone.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

And that's incredibly dumb, because 'valuable' and 'best' aren't synonyms.

Sure, the iPhone is a valuable phone, but it's not close to being the best phone.

It's not dumb, it's subjective. Someone's interpretation of 'value' may just be different than yours. Unless you think all the hockey writers that have voted for the award over the decades are dumb, but that's your call.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by JJ1532

Green text?

He absolutely elevates this team. He is our leading scorer by a margin of 16 points. Nobody else on our team is capable of doing what he does, not even close. Nobody else can replace him if he were to go down for any period of time. Yeah, guys like Monahan, Bennett, Gio and even Brodie are massively important, but we'd be dead last without Gaudreau.

The difference between dead last, and the Flames current position, is essentially 2 points. He elevates himself, he's not bringing the team along with him.

[Sakic19]

Patrick Kane is running away with it, or Brayden Hotlby will take it if he keeps winning every game. Gaudreau is ninth in league scoring on a team not even close to clinching a playoff spot. Him and Monahan dominated the game yesterday, and if they can consistently do that next year (while winning and racking up points) then we can talk. Until then it's just a pipe dream

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

And that's incredibly dumb, because 'valuable' and 'best' aren't synonyms.

Sure, the iPhone is a valuable phone, but it's not close to being the best phone.

It is a little dumb, but that's the way it is. The Ted Lindsey, formally the Pearson was first awarded in 1972. It was given out by the NHLPA which was founded several years previous. It's essentially a companion to the Hart Trophy, just voted on by the players instead of the Hockey Writers Association.

Sure your description of the Hart Trophy is accurate but it's ignoring the way the trophy has been voted on since forever.

Same same, but different,

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

It is a little dumb, but that's the way it is. The Ted Lindsey, formally the Pearson was first awarded in 1972. It was given out by the NHLPA which was founded several years previous. It's essentially a companion to the Hart Trophy, just voted on by the players instead of the Hockey Writers Association.

Sure your description of the Hart Trophy is accurate but it's ignoring the way the trophy has been voted on since forever.

Same same, but different,

Exactly.

It would make things easier if they just said both are for most outstanding player but one is voted on by the writers, the other by the NHLPA. Done, no confusion. Because that's what they are anyway.

[N-E-B]

This year? Absolutely not. Kane and it's not even close.

At some point in his career? Absolutely 100% possible. But that's a conversation for a different year.

[Dion]

Gaudreau will get his chance but not this year.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by heep223

No it really doesn't. If McDavid led the Oilers from their current position into the playoffs he could absolutely be a finalist. Same with Johnny. We're not talking about winning the MVP here, just that they're mentioned/in the conversation.

Anyways the point being that your initial post was overly dramatic and disparaging. It's not a ridiculous idea at all. The fact that one of the most well respected pundits in media said it also proves that. Do you disagree?

Ps Benn and Seguin could easily be in the convo too

If by convo you mean grabbing a vote or two then sure. When someone says in convo I assume they're one of the 3 finalists, otherwise you can talk about many players.

Benn and Seguin were in the convo at the beginning of the year now they're just ppg players, which this year won't be enough. That's what I'm saying about Johnny, he'll be around ppg and IF the Flames make the playoffs he wound't have separated himself from a lot of guys.

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

See, the Hart rarely goes to players on stacked teams, like the Caps, Stars and Pens. The point is that the teams wouldn't be close to being as successful without the valuable player, so to have teammates nominated for such an award is silly.

Huh? last few winners have been like of Price, Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Perry, Sedin. All players from stacked good teams.

[doctajones428]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Actually no, as already stated, it's the best player.

Actually, no, it's not:

"The Hart Memorial Trophy, originally known as the Hart Trophy, is awarded annually to the "player judged most valuable to his team" in the National Hockey League (NHL)"

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by doctajones428

Actually, no, it's not:



"The Hart Memorial Trophy, originally known as the Hart Trophy, is awarded annually to the "player judged most valuable to his team" in the National Hockey League (NHL)"

Actually, actually, it's actually.

Yeah, we've all read the definitions. Read the last 20 posts. This isn't about the definition of the award, it's about what the award is ACTUALLY given for.

Best player.

Could be worse I guess, could be the Norris "best (offensive) defenceman" trophy.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

So who do you think would win it right now?

I believe it would be Kane....and probably in a landslide. Because he is the league's best player this season.

Kane of course. He's been dominant and the leagues best player. Doesn't mean the award always goes to the leagues best player. Sedin won it in 09 scoring 3 more points than Ovechkin and Crosby. Is anyone willing to say Sedin was the best player in the NHL that year? He had the most points but Crosby is a far better player. The award usually goes to the leagues best player because they are the most valuable to their team. I have no doubt if McDavid went on a tear and the Oilers made the playoffs that McDavid would be in the conversation even though he'd have played half a season.

Do people actually believe Jose Theodore was a better player than Iginla the year he won it? I guarantee every single GM would have taken Iginla in a heartbeat that season.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Actually, actually, it's actually.

Yeah, we've all read the definitions. Read the last 20 posts. This isn't about the definition of the award, it's about what the award is ACTUALLY given for.

Best player.

Could be worse I guess, could be the Norris "best (offensive) defenceman" trophy.

You really need to check your award definitions. Being offensive is part of playing defence. Defenceman are expected to join the rush and play a two way game.

There is a reason they say "all around ability" in the James Norris trophy definition.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

You really need to check your award definitions. Being offensive is part of playing defence. Defenceman are expected to join the rush and play a two way game.



There is a reason they say "all around ability" in the James Norris trophy definition.

I was joking. I have no interest in the Norris debate.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Sedin won it in 09 scoring 3 more points than Ovechkin and Crosby. Is anyone willing to say Sedin was the best player in the NHL that year?

Yes, the people that voted for him.

I have no doubt if McDavid went on a tear and the Oilers made the playoffs that McDavid would be in the conversation even though he'd have played half a season.

What does 'in the conversation' mean? A finalist? There could potentially be a dozen or more players people talk about, but I can't recall the last time a forward or defenseman played half the games everyone else did and still won the award.

Do people actually believe Jose Theodore was a better player than Iginla the year he won it?

He won, so yes, some people did believe that.

I guarantee every single GM would have taken Iginla in a heartbeat that season.

Why would you guarantee that? He won the Hart and I'm guessing any team that season with poor goaltending would have taken Theodore over Iginla. Both players had good seasons that year, it wasn't like Theodore was a bum.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

...last few winners have been like of Price, Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Perry, Sedin. All players from stacked good teams.

Hahaha! What?!

Price is good, but the Canadiens are NOT a stacked team. Not even close.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Yes, the people that voted for him.



What does 'in the conversation' mean? A finalist? There could potentially be a dozen or more players people talk about, but I can't recall the last time a forward or defenseman played half the games everyone else did and still won the award.



He won, so yes, some people did believe that.



Why would you guarantee that? He won the Hart and I'm guessing any team that season with poor goaltending would have taken Theodore over Iginla. Both players had good seasons that year, it wasn't like Theodore was a bum.

Because Iginla was the best player in the game that year. That would be like this year someone taking a goalie over Patrick Kane. Not happening.

And people voted for John Scott, we all know why Iginla didn't win that year and it was just as fishy as the Scott ASG vote-in.

[REDVAN]

Flames won't make the playoffs, so this isn't even a discussion.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Because Iginla was the best player in the game that year. That would be like this year someone taking a goalie over Patrick Kane. Not happening.

And people voted for John Scott, we all know why Iginla didn't win that year and it was just as fishy as the Scott ASG vote-in.

I wouldn't be surprised if Holtby wins instead of Kane.

Iggy vs Theodore was fishy but it wasn't like it was given to a "Scott" like player. Theodore played 67 games that year, had a save percentage of 0.931.

He, if we go by some peoples "most valuable" definition was easily more valuable to Habs then Iggy. Their highest scorer had 56 points. The only reason the Habs made the playoffs that was Theodore.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

The difference between dead last, and the Flames current position, is essentially 2 points. He elevates himself, he's not bringing the team along with him.

He has elevated the team. Without him we'd be clearly in last place. Without him that home winning streak doesn't happen.