[News] Mason Raymond and Brandon Prust on waivers.

[Erick Estrada]

I can understand fans being disappointed in Bollig and Raymond who are signed to veteran deals but Granlund is on his entry level deal making less than $1 million and at least doesn't look out of place in the NHL. Going forward with Gadreau/Monahan raises and Giordano's deal kicking in the Flames are going to need more Granlunds on this team to offset the higher paid players. Sure he's not scoring but nobody is on this team outside of a couple of players is doing anything offensively this season as he's scored a whopping 3 goals less than Hudler and Backlund and those are the guys bringing the team down as they aren't playing up to the level of their contracts.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I can understand fans being disappointed in Bollig and Raymond who are signed to veteran deals but Granlund is on his entry level deal making less than $1 million and at least doesn't look out of place in the NHL. Going forward with Gadreau/Monahan raises and Giordano's deal kicking in the Flames are going to need more Granlunds on this team to offset the higher paid players. Sure he's not scoring but nobody is on this team outside of a couple of players is doing anything offensively this season as he's scored a whopping 3 goals less than Hudler and Backlund and those are the guys bringing the team down as they aren't playing up to the level of their contracts.

I agree that if a bunch of players are doing nothing, you might as well make them young players like Granlund.

However, I disagree on Granlund not looking of out place. Pat Steinbergh always tells me that Granlund is in way over his head, so it must be true.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I can understand fans being disappointed in Bollig and Raymond who are signed to veteran deals but Granlund is on his entry level deal making less than $1 million and at least doesn't look out of place in the NHL. Going forward with Gadreau/Monahan raises and Giordano's deal kicking in the Flames are going to need more Granlunds on this team to offset the higher paid players. Sure he's not scoring but nobody is on this team outside of a couple of players is doing anything offensively this season as he's scored a whopping 3 goals less than Hudler and Backlund and those are the guys bringing the team down as they aren't playing up to the level of their contracts.

I don't think it's Granlund's lack of offence that bothers most critics (though I want to see this fantastic wrist shot his supporters cite doing something more than hitting the glass behind the net or the goalie's crest). I think his critics want more physical play and better faceoffs.

[northcrunk]

I really don't want to get my hopes up about Raymond being sent down since last time was such a tease.

[Toonage]

I think we've seen enough from Granlund the past few years to know that while he may be capable of playing in the NHL, he doesn't seem like he will excel at this level. At least not with the linemates he's had and he's unlikely to see better anytime soon. They want him in a checking role, killing penalties.

[FlamesAddiction]

I have nothing against Raymond, but at this point, I think Granlund brings more to the ice. Glad to see that Granlund looks like he is sticking.

I hope someone (in the east) claims Raymond and he goes on to do well.

[GioforPM]

This is what happens when everyone's healthy. I think Raymond haters can take some comfort in the fact that sending Granlund down is a far simpler move. Or even sending Ferland down (for "conditioning" or otherwise). It shows management feels that he's the lowest on the totem pole.

[Red Menace]

I prefer someone in the West claims him so we have the benefit of playing against him more often.
But no one is claiming him...he is dead weight with a bad contract

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I have nothing against Raymond, but at this point, I think Granlund brings more to the ice. Glad to see that Granlund looks like he is sticking.

I hope someone (in the east) claims Raymond and he goes on to do well.

I doubt anyone claims that player at that salary. The trouble for Raymond is that, when this contract is over, there is little chance of a new contract with anyone, given the new marketplace. He will be in the same boat as Glencross and all those other oldish vets who had to go to PTOs.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I agree that if a bunch of players are doing nothing, you might as well make them young players like Granlund.

However, I disagree on Granlund not looking of out place. Pat Steinbergh always tells me that Granlund is in way over his head, so it must be true.

Steinberg does a fine job on the radio but his knowledge of hockey is no better than the majority of fans here.

Originally Posted by Toonage

I think we've seen enough from Granlund the past few years to know that while he may be capable of playing in the NHL, he doesn't seem like he will excel at this level. At least not with the linemates he's had and he's unlikely to see better anytime soon. They want him in a checking role, killing penalties.

It's not about excelling it's about not hurting your team or looking out of place as Flames fans will have to get used to entry level players playing in the bottom 6 and bottom defense pairing as going forward the Flames will not have the luxury of paying veteran players for these roles. He may not be a top 6 guy like we hoped a few years back but if he can play bottom six he will have a spot on this team in the future.

You have to believe if Hartley really thought Granlund wasn't getting it done that he would have been the guy sent down. I will trust the coach on this.

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

It wasn't a 'Granlund or Raymond' offering. Raymond is going down for Ferland. It's a question of Granlund or Grant to me.

Oh sure. I too would take Grant over Granlund at this point, I really like his game. Speed, decent size with tenacity. I think we see Granlund down for a D call up though with the pending Wideman suspension.

Grant is up when, Hudler/Jones are traded.

[FBI]

Granlund hasn't been doing great but I prefer him over Raymond by a bazillimillionton

[PepsiFree]

When you consider what he's being paid along with what the Flames need him to do to be successful, Raymond might be the worst bang-for-buck player on the roster.

If he was 21 and on an ELC, he might be loved. At this point though, it's time to move on.

[PeteMoss]

Steinberg's big on advanced stats and Granlund's are some of the worst on the team (better than only Jones, Bouma and Russell in CF%).

Granlund is however one the team's better penalty killers. When Granlund is on the ice for the PK - opponents average 35 shots per 60 minutes. Compare that to Bouma who's at over 60 shots per 60 minutes. Granlund has been on for only 1 goal while short-handed. He doesn't play as much as Bouma, but he's very effective out there.

Need to look at the full picture when evaluating players.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don't disagree. IMO Raymond hasn't been horrible this year - just not a $3M player.

For that reason as well, he won't be claimed. I could see a team thinking he'd be useful depth, but the pricetag is too high. Now if the Flames retained...

He's been horrible. What does he do well? Nothing. What does he fail to do? Retain possession, win board battles, score easy goals that he is set up for, win net front battles, make nice setups, etc. He's been deadweight on the roster all year, dragging down his line.

Hard to imagine any team thinking he'd be useful depth if they've scouted him at all.

[Ozy_Flame]

Assuming we don't get rid of anyone, we have Smid, Bollig, Raymond, Engelland, and Smid coming off the books next year. That's alot of salary space to start considering.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Assuming we don't get rid of anyone, we have Smid, Bollig, Raymond, Engelland, and Smid coming off the books next year. That's alot of salary space to start considering.

That's about 10.5mill. Basically all of that will be allocated to Gaudreau and Monahan's raises this summer.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don't think it's Granlund's lack of offence that bothers most critics (though I want to see this fantastic wrist shot his supporters cite doing something more than hitting the glass behind the net or the goalie's crest). I think his critics want more physical play and better faceoffs.

It's most definitely Granlund's lack of offence that bothers most critics. The guy is a skilled player who was scoring machine in the AHL and hasn't been able to transition that to the NHL. He was never physical nor should he be at his size. His shot is very accurate, but he hasn't made use of it in the NHL.

That said, his defensive game is of more use than Raymond falling down on the ice every 10 seconds.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Steinberg's big on advanced stats and Granlund's are some of the worst on the team (better than only Jones, Bouma and Russell in CF%).

Granlund is however one the team's better penalty killers. When Granlund is on the ice for the PK - opponents average 35 shots per 60 minutes. Compare that to Bouma who's at over 60 shots per 60 minutes. Granlund has been on for only 1 goal while short-handed. He doesn't play as much as Bouma, but he's very effective out there.

Need to look at the full picture when evaluating players.

Granlund is also still arguably on the upswing and has room to grow. He is still only 22 years old. If he can learn more in the NHL than the AHL, and given that we are unlikely to make the playoffs, it's a no-brainer to keep him up with the team instead of Raymond (even if Granlund was less effective in some areas).

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Treliving admits his bad move. Good to see. Couldn't wait to get this guy off the roster. He may have to be bought out this summer.