Know what else has 'regressed' this year?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Poe969

If Hudler is injured, he should sit. He's not really producing so why not rest him and wait until he's 100%?

That's more on the training staff and Hudler. Hartley isn't a doctor.

Originally Posted by Poe969

He's put Hudler on the third line but he could have give up that spot to someone like Grant.

Hartley doesn't decide who to call up. If you wanna see Grant over Granlund then you should be blaming the GM on that call.

I mean some of the things you're trying to pin on Hartley aren't even in his job.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FiveSeven

I don't think I've ever understand Hartley's approach to Wideman.
We could debate on what he's good or bad at, I think the approach should be just simply removing him from the PP for Hamilton.
Not sure how many minutes he has to be spoon fed and ineffective with before Hartley realizes it isn't working... Hamilton also got like 25 of 80 points in Boston on the PP....soooo...yeah....Bob?

Bench Wides for a game or more?
Hamilton on PP?
Try Bennett at first line center?

Hamilton is already on the PP.
I'd be trying Bennett at centre somewhere else before throwing him out on the top line (or maybe letting him be C on the firsat power play unit to see who that goes).
Wideman - sure, he could be benched, but IMO there's no one better to move up at the moment.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

The problem with benching Wideman is it diminishes his already slim trade value. On the one hand I think he absolutely deserves to be benched and that both Smid and Engelland have played well enough to deserve a regular spot. On the other hand you don't wanna tank his value in case some team is crazy enough to trade for him.

I'm convinced at least one defenseman moves at the deadline and we don't really have to worry about who's getting scratched as the #7 dman the rest of the season.

Unfortunately I think the best course of action may be just to continue to play Wideman and hope he turns his game around.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Unfortunately I think the best course of action may be just to continue to play Wideman and hope he turns his game around.

I kind of don't actually...Wideman is part of the cheat code for unlocking Puljujärvi.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

We should be trying to build a team that mimics Chicago and LA, not the Calgary Flames of 07/08. To do this, patience is required, as championship teams are not built overnight.

I'm not a huge fan of Hartley. I don't think he coaches a modern possession based game of hockey, but this team's roster and coaching has dictated our position in the standings, not coaching alone.

Couple things I kind of disagree with in your post. First, Chicago won their first cup when Kane and Toews were still on their entry level deals. Their other young guys like Keith, Seabrook, Byfuglien and Ladd were also on cheap deals. To mimic Chicago we needed to win the cup this year.

Second, there is nothing modern about the style of play that leads to good 'possession' numbers. It is basically the same style that Montreal was playing in the 50s and 60s.

Other than those minor quibbles, I agree with the overall tone of your post though.

[Illuminaughty]

Hartley's not incompetent, you don't make it to an NHL coaching job by sucking. I agree that they are spoon feeding Wideman minutes to hopefully get him going, so they can move him.

There's a reason why coach's tend to lean on veterans more then youth, because they are more proven. Some posters on here think just replacing veterans for youth at every position is the way to go moving forward, I disagree. How has that worked for the Oilers over the years?

I'm sure Hartley would like to play a puck possession game but we don't have the personnel. We're a small fast skating team, hence all the stretch passes and flying the zone early and getting the D to jump up. It's no coincidence that a team like the Kings are one of biggest and have the best possession stats.

Our results are more on the players not trying as hard and terrible goaltending. I don't even know what to say about the power play but to me it's more on the players then the coaching staff. Winning more faceoffs and being able to setup and hit the net would definitely help. It's so easy to scape goat the coaching staff for the teams issues, especially when we don't know what's going on behind the scenes. We caught lightening in a bottle last season, wasn't going to happen again this year, all part of a re-building team trying to learn to win consistently.

[Textcritic]

* So, I posted this this morning in this thread from my iPhone, but strangely, it bizarrely ended up in this long dead thread...

Originally Posted by ComixZone

...The "expectations" on the team this year were the same stupid expectations put on this team when it was too old/not good enough to compete. The only difference right now? We're young/not good enough to compete.

We should be trying to build a team that mimics Chicago and LA, not the Calgary Flames of 07/08. To do this, patience is required, as championship teams are not built overnight.

I'm not a huge fan of Hartley. I don't think he coaches a modern possession based game of hockey, but this team's roster and coaching has dictated our position in the standings, not coaching alone.

This is a good post.

I should like to add that there are a number of us who have maintained that Hartley will ultimately not be the coach to guide this team to a championship. Having said that, he think he was absolutely the right coach with which to begin the process of rebuilding and development.

There is no perfect coach in the NHL to see a team through every stage of its life-cycle. Those that we label as "elite" are so because they are excellent coaches for winning with a roster that understands the game, the schedule, and the division of roles on the team. This team isn't there yet. I expect that Hartley will probably get another year with this roster as a great transition coach, but that in two years time, the Flames will have in place a coach who is much better suited to fine-tuning this team into a winner.

These things take time, and its not worth griping about in the short term.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

* So, I posted this this morning in this thread from my iPhone, but strangely, it bizarrely ended up in this long dead thread...


This is a good post.

I should like to add that there are a number of us who have maintained that Hartley will ultimately not be the coach to guide this team to a championship. Having said that, he think he was absolutely the right coach with which to begin the process of rebuilding and development.

There is no perfect coach in the NHL to see a team through every stage of its life-cycle. Those that we label as "elite" are so because they are excellent coaches for winning with a roster that understands the game, the schedule, and the division of roles on the team. This team isn't there yet. I expect that Hartley will probably get another year with this roster as a great transition coach, but that in two years time, the Flames will have in place a coach who is much better suited to fine-tuning this team into a winner.

These things take time, and its not worth gripping about in the short term.

Aaaaammmeeeennnn

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Split98

We're still re-building, right?

Still rebuilding? Correct! Rebuilding since the mid 90's and counting.

[Caged Great]

For people wanting Hartley fired. You do realize that constant coaching changes are a huge part of the reason why the Oilers are the Oilers right.

[Textcritic]

^
I should like to add in conversation with my thoughts about NHL coaching, it is quite difficult to assess whether the two most recent high-profile coaching hires are good ones for their organisations:

Mike Babcock was a long time ago a great developmental coach. But with all the years working in Detroit, and then with Hockey Canada, I think it is legitimate to question whether or not he can do for the Toronto Maple Leafs now what he did for the Anaheim Mighty Ducks over 15 years ago.

Todd McLellan is a seasoned, veteran coach with a lot of experience working with a seasoned, veteran lineup. I am not at all convinced that he can get the Oilers roster to do the work that needs to be done to win, since the players have never had a good developmental coach since they fired Tom Renney.

[shotinthebacklund]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I don't believe this to be true. By all accounts, our possession metrics have improved drastically over last year, and the style of game they are playing is trending much more towards a possession game. Problem is, our personnel have not yet adapted to playing that way very well. Some have, others are struggling.

This may be a year where the players have to adapt to a new style of play, and we see which players fit and which ones don't going forward. That's the part of rebuilding that is essential, figuring that out. We are starting to see the holes in the lineup based on playing the game a consistently successful way, and it's simply showing that we have work to do on the roster.

The struggles may also be that Hartley is trying to figure out how to implement a more possession based system with the players he has. Previously, he created his own style based on the talent he was given, and it was unconventional to say the least. While he was successful in the short term, both he and Treliving know that you can't play that way and be successful long term. Hartley isn't stupid, and he's shown to be more willing to change his ways than any coach I can remember. Things are definitely different this year, but the success isn't there. Part of that simply may be that the poor start led to this team not believing in itself as much, and a fragile psyche is the hardest issue to overcome for a team.

I've already written this year off as a development year, but I agree with those that are saying we should start making roster moves as soon as possible to address the glaring holes.

Thank you,
This is exactly my sentiments. There is a reason why we are playing the systems we are and its because with the personnel we have it works (to a degree) You cant go out and Play a Kings style game when the pieces of the puzzle dont fit.

The whole #1c stuff is ridiculous, they are developed not bought and Monahan is very well on his way. That's not even considering Bennett.

Monahan was utilized at center yes. Stajan was also our #1c the year before...( nothing against stajan here anymore) Bennett will get there and given his play style I believe he will excel.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

Still rebuilding? Correct! Rebuilding since the mid 90's and counting.

come on now that isn't true at all...I realize people aren't happy but use your brain

3rd year of current rebuild

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

I'm sure Hartley would like to play a puck possession game but we don't have the personnel. We're a small fast skating team, hence all the stretch passes and flying the zone early and getting the D to jump up. It's no coincidence that a team like the Kings are one of biggest and have the best possession stats.

The Blackhawks are also one of the smallest and have some of the best possession stats.

The Coyotes are also one of the biggest and have some of the worst possession stats.

I just don't like blaming size.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

For people wanting Hartley fired. You do realize that constant coaching changes are a huge part of the reason why the Oilers are the Oilers right.

Perhaps, but lets step away from ledge. This is his fourth year here. Hardly a carousel.

[Benched]

attempted to create a humorous thread about a small potato item that I actually do miss. turned into a Hartley hate thread.


pure fail.



/walks away in shame

[spuzzum]

Let's hope we can pick up David Schlemko on waivers prior to Mar 1 this year. Season might be saved then.

[sa226]

Originally Posted by Benched

attempted to create a humorous thread about a small potato item that I actually do miss. turned into a Hartley hate thread.


pure fail.



/walks away in shame

While I actually do believe you. You shouldn't be so naive.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by nik-

Perhaps, but lets step away from ledge. This is his fourth year here. Hardly a carousel.

Bingo. When a coach of any team lasts that long and is out of playoff contention it's fair to wonder if it's time for a change. Now longer tenured than Brent or Darryl and counting.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Benched

attempted to create a humorous thread about a small potato item that I actually do miss. turned into a Hartley hate thread.


pure fail.



/walks away in shame

You should have bumped the Hartley quotes thread