Shooter in Saskatchewan?

[SeeGeeWhy]

Originally Posted by troutman

Tragic.

My son (12) had to do a lockdown drill at school this week. What kind of world is this?

My 6 year old did one this year too. Taught them to hide in the bathroom if they weren't in the class and that the reason they were doing this was In case a moose got in the school

[saillias]

Originally Posted by polak

I had to do lock down drills back when I was in elementary 16+ years ago. They've been around forever.

Same.

[SeeGeeWhy]

Dp

[tjinaz]

I think it's pretty clear that there is a correlative relationship between gun control frameworks and the prevalence of gun deaths. I think people who disagree with this are ideologues who care more about their side of the debate winning than for facts. Personally, I'm not a gun guy, but I also don't particularly care about gun rights, except to the extent that I'm anti-death... and I'm pretty sure we're all supposed to be on that team.

Now, in the USA, it's a bit more complicated because there already exists a situation where there are 300 million guns in circulation. Hence, banning all guns doesn't make any sense; it's a far more complex problem. But the rhetoric that will inevitably be used by politicians isn't complex or nuanced, it will simply be, "see, it doesn't help".

Having to listen to that sort of predictable stupidity is going to be extremely exasperating.

I think the point here is gun control will not prevent mass killings. Not completely. This happened in Canada where gun control has been around forever and yet this still occurs. This still happens in Europe and even occurs in Asia but more often with knives.

What has changed? In the US up until 1934 anyone could legally buy a machine gun and in 1968 you could still order a gun from a catalog and have it mailed to your house but people were not snapping and shooting up schools or their places of work. There will always be crimes of passion or rage and people will harm each other with any weapon they can find but this current trend of shooters angry at society started in 1984. Gun controls have incrementally been tightened but the events are still increasing. In China we are seeing people snapping and killing kids in schools and on subways with knives. When what changed in society that prompted this is identified is when a working solution to this issue will be found. If you are looking for a correlation we may want to add in public attitudes and funding for mental health as well as gun control frameworks. I am sure there is room on both sides for work in that area.

As you said gun control is "complicated" in the US but if people instead of using them as a way to fuel their political tribe, united towards funding mental health we would actually get some good out of these terrible events


When your first thought is that your arguments might be damaged more so than the tragedy i think you might be an ideologue.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Are you really able to re-read what you just wrote and miss the fundamental illogic in it?

EDIT: At the risk of wasting my time I'll be a touch more helpful.

1. "This happened in Canada where gun control has been around forever and yet this still occurs." Yes. Far, far more rarely.
2. "There will always be crimes of passion". This does not mean that some regulations on guns would not be effective in reducing gun deaths - particularly when 2/3 of those gun deaths are suicides. What those regulations should be in the U.S. context is of course a larger debate and I'm at least somewhat agnostic.
3. "People get killed with knives in Asia". Terrible news. That sounds like a separate issue in Chinese society that should be addressed on its own merits. It, again, has no bearing on the issue of gun control in the USA.
4. "Mental health is what we should really be focusing on". Sure, I'm open to ideas in this vein, just as I'm open to specific gun regulation proposals. I suspect that both categories of response would be effective to some degree. It's not a matter of waving a magic wand in one direction or the other.
5. "When your first thought is that your arguments might be damaged" ... I don't have "arguments". I don't have some sort of quiver of dogmatic positions to fire at people on this issue. I am really not particularly engaged on gun control. I am, however, unaffected by any real emotional attachment to this issue and thus able to employ some basic common sense.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Violator

That's because of vandalism ie broken windows graffiti and break-ins

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

The steel shutters were an attempt to protect the computers more than anything else, stealing tech gear out of schools used to be a profitable little crime in the 90's and 2000's.
Your school probably had a good PAC that got it lots of techie toys, being rich and all!

It was not a rich school tho. It was middle class. They don't even use them that often

Kamloops Secondary School. Was the rich and most well funded school. They have mutiple computer rooms and metal, wood working rooms. They have 2 campuses.


I actually looked in to it today and the Sahali School did install the shutters after a incident involving a student with a knife. They are for lockdown situations and as well as they are used if there is a fire.

[tjinaz]

[QUOTE]1. "This happened in Canada where gun control has been around forever and yet this still occurs." Yes. Far, far more rarely.
2. "There will always be crimes of passion". This does not mean that some regulations on guns would not be effective in reducing gun deaths - particularly when 2/3 of those gun deaths are suicides. What those regulations should be in the U.S. context is of course a larger debate and I'm at least somewhat agnostic.
3. "People get killed with knives in Asia". Terrible news. That sounds like a separate issue in Chinese society that should be addressed on its own merits. It, again, has no bearing on the issue of gun control in the USA.
4. "Mental health is what we should really be focusing on". Sure, I'm open to ideas in this vein, just as I'm open to specific gun regulation proposals. I suspect that both categories of response would be effective to some degree. It's not a matter of waving a magic wand in one direction or the other.
5. "When your first thought is that your arguments might be damaged" ... I don't have "arguments". I don't have some sort of quiver of dogmatic positions to fire at people on this issue. I am really not particularly engaged on gun control. I am, however, unaffected by any real emotional attachment to this issue and thus able to employ some basic common sense.
__________________[/QUOTE

I guess what I am saying is this.

This is not just a USA/Canada problem and gun control is not a silver bullet.

People are snapping and killing others in masses with increasing regularity all over the world. It is happening in US, Canada, Europe, Asia in nearly all developed countries. When guns are available they shoot, when they are not they stab or in the recent case in Las Vegas simply drive over people. Not sure what changed in society but until the root cause is found these events will continue to occur and I don't think it can be legislated away. Wasn't the long gun registry started after a similar event? How did that work out?

But to be clear this was a kid in Saskatchewan with a shotgun what does this have to do with gun control in the US if not for a dogmatic position?

[Street Pharmacist]

People are snapping and killing others in masses with increasing regularity all over the world.

Sidebar to this debate, but this is soooooooooo wrong and demonstrably false

[Daradon]

Re: lockdown drills. I don't remember having to do any drills, but I was in an actual lockdown once. It was when that police officer got run over laying the spike belt on Deerfoot in the 90's. The one that led to us getting the first chopper. The chase had begun right near our school.

So, while it is a tragedy, I'd probably disagree with the 'what is our world coming to?' comments. It's been like this for a while and really I don't think it's gotten any worse.

[Daradon]

I dont even know what tjinaz is trying to argue, but he's definitely the ideologue.

To tjinaz:

1. It's not happening with the same regularity in Canada as the States. (I am aware you didnt outright state this, but a lot of your argument is based on muddying this fact) Not even a fraction of it. This was our worst shooting in a decade, and there were four victims. Yes there are a variety of factors including cultural, but the biggest factor is better regulations.

2. People are not snapping and killing each other all over the world in record numbers. So far off base it's hilarious. If you truly believe so, give us some numbers and proof.

3. Your comments on mental health are what give you away in the debate. Yes it's a good point, and yes we should be doing all we can for people in mental distress, gun or no gun. But this has become the new talking point for the gun lobby in the States. And something tells me they don't really care other than to muddy the debate about regulations. (Which appears to be your angle) Republicans have proven they dont care about health care, why would they care about mental health? It's actually an argument that's beginning to bug me because it's taking a very serious topic, and using it as a prop in the gun regulations debate.

4. Of course you can't stop all shootings with regulations. But it appears you can stop most of them. Are you arguing it's not worth it without a 100 percent success rate?

Regulations work. All over the world they work. And they will work in the States too. Not overnight. Not every quickly, as that's a huge hill to climb down there. But slowly they will. And more importantly, those values will start to permeate the culture too.

[Julio]

http://saskatoon.ctvnews.ca/teacher-...ting-1.2749316

A really good friend of mine started her teaching career in La Loche. she is already gutted, and this will make it even worse.

[Vulcan]

Milos Raonic dedicates win to LaLoche.

http://globalnews.ca/video/2472959/c...in-to-la-loche

[Engine09]

A lot of people have shared some pretty personal stories on this board, part of what makes it such a great place, figured I might as well post a brief message at least.

Was a pretty strange Friday, I was at work when my Mom started sending me messages about the shooting and that my nephew who goes to the high school was alright. He walked back into the school less than a minute before the shooter and was in the gym when they heard shots. His teacher told them to get in the locker room and hide but he and a group of others bolted out the back doors and got the hell out of there and went straight home.

My folks moved to La Loche in 1979 from the Saskatoon area when my Dad got work building houses, I started grade 1 that year and left town the year after I graduated. For some reason my folks and brother stayed, I head back to visit twice a year but recently only once a year due to being so busy.

That town might have a bad reputation but overall I would say that I like the people there. Not a lot of a-holes in that town, but a lot broken people who just can't get their #### together. I had a great childhood there, I would rip around the woods and down trails to the rivers and lakes on dirtbikes and quads. Did a lot of camping, hiking, fishing, canoeing, playing minor hockey, etc. Walked all over town visiting friends, working on our trucks, off-roading, drinking beer, good old fashioned small town stuff.

I feel terrible for those who lost family, I know most of them.There are mentally unstable people in every corner of our country, I guess it's our responsibility to identify and help anyone who is so troubled they would do something like this.

Oh, almost all of those native kids are badass hockey players. About 3 years ago while visiting during Christmas I brought my gear and went out to the local arena with my brother and joined a pickup game. There were guys with crap gear, everything mismatched and helmets that didn't fit but they had such great shots and were so damn good. They play with an edge too, it was fun as hell.

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by Kryzsky

I feel terrible for those who lost family, I know most of them.

Sorry to hear Kryzsky. I just got word an extended family member of mine was a victim. Doesn't sound life-threatening but I don't have much for details yet.

So senseless.

[Julio]

Originally Posted by Kryzsky

A lot of people have shared some pretty personal stories on this board, part of what makes it such a great place, figured I might as well post a brief message at least.

Was a pretty strange Friday, I was at work when my Mom started sending me messages about the shooting and that my nephew who goes to the high school was alright. He walked back into the school less than a minute before the shooter and was in the gym when they heard shots. His teacher told them to get in the locker room and hide but he and a group of others bolted out the back doors and got the hell out of there and went straight home.

My folks moved to La Loche in 1979 from the Saskatoon area when my Dad got work building houses, I started grade 1 that year and left town the year after I graduated. For some reason my folks and brother stayed, I head back to visit twice a year but recently only once a year due to being so busy.

That town might have a bad reputation but overall I would say that I like the people there. Not a lot of a-holes in that town, but a lot broken people who just can't get their #### together. I had a great childhood there, I would rip around the woods and down trails to the rivers and lakes on dirtbikes and quads. Did a lot of camping, hiking, fishing, canoeing, playing minor hockey, etc. Walked all over town visiting friends, working on our trucks, off-roading, drinking beer, good old fashioned small town stuff.

I feel terrible for those who lost family, I know most of them.There are mentally unstable people in every corner of our country, I guess it's our responsibility to identify and help anyone who is so troubled they would do something like this.

Oh, almost all of those native kids are badass hockey players. About 3 years ago while visiting during Christmas I brought my gear and went out to the local arena with my brother and joined a pickup game. There were guys with crap gear, everything mismatched and helmets that didn't fit but they had such great shots and were so damn good. They play with an edge too, it was fun as hell.

I am older than you, and never played La Loche in hockey, but crap they had some good basketball teams...

[Coys1882]

+1 for good hockey teams up there - and some really good fastball teams too. Buffalo Narrows, Patunak, Ile a le Crosse - beautiful country and great people but alcohol abuse is just so rampant it's depressing.

[Drummer]

Shooter is 17 so due to the young offender act, no pictures or name of the bad guy can be released. Probably not much jail time either? Does the Y.O. Act hurt victims even more?

[T@T]

Hopefully he gets tried as an adult.

[afc wimbledon]

He'll be automatically raised to adult, assuming he's fit to stand trial, his lawyer will then have to prove he should be 'unraised'.

[Johnny199r]

Originally Posted by Drummer

Shooter is 17 so due to the young offender act, no pictures or name of the bad guy can be released. Probably not much jail time either? Does the Y.O. Act hurt victims even more?

He'll be tried as an adult and spend a long, long time in jail.