I could use some CP advice re: buying a new car

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I've never shopped around for a car before and I'll tell you why: I respect the time of the person I'm dealing with. If I walk into a store and I'm interested in a Rav4 hybrid, I'll ask questions. I'll go for a drive. If I like the car, if the person I'm dealing with isn't off putting and if there's an offer on the table that I consider fair based on my budget, I'll buy the car.

I won't then go to three other Toyota stores to save a couple hundred bucks over the course of a seven year finance term at 0%.

In fact, I don't shop around for anything, now I think about it. If I don't buy something, it's because I can't afford it or I'm not sold on it. Which I think is pretty reasonable. Not entitled.

So because you don't do it, anyone that does is stupid for doing so?

[NuclearFart]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I've never shopped around for a car before and I'll tell you why: I respect the time of the person I'm dealing with. If I walk into a store and I'm interested in a Rav4 hybrid, I'll ask questions. I'll go for a drive. If I like the car, if the person I'm dealing with isn't off putting and if there's an offer on the table that I consider fair based on my budget, I'll buy the car.

I won't then go to three other Toyota stores to save a couple hundred bucks over the course of a seven year finance term at 0%.

In fact, I don't shop around for anything, now I think about it. If I don't buy something, it's because I can't afford it or I'm not sold on it. Which I think is pretty reasonable. Not entitled.

It has nothing to do with respect of the salesman.

It's about shopping around to meet a material demand at the best price, which is entirely normal human behavior and an elementary concept of consumerism. If salesmen are butt hurt over this phenomena, they really shouldn't be in sales.

I'll be sure to look you up next time I want to sell my used car at an exorbitant price.

[PepsiFree]

Two things you should always do:

1. Shop around for ANYTHING you're buying

2. Negotiate the price of your vehicle (new or used)

Failure to do either of those things isn't an admirable quality. It's naive and dumb.

I would never make a purchase (over, say, $50) without having done research or shopped around. A purchase of over $20,000? Yeah, you better be well educated and ready to negotiate. This isn't about either having the money or not, it's about being smart with the money you have.

Give to charity if you want to give away your money.

[Hockeyguy15]

So I guess when we buy houses we shouldn't negotiate? We should just take the list price so we don't waste anyone's time?

[Oling_Roachinen]

The odd thing is that Homeslice didn't even appear to waste anyone's time.

The first dealership tried to rip him off, when he went back with the offer they told him to take it. They can't cry foul because they tried to rip him off.

The other two dealers gave Homeslice their best offers and couldn't match Unhaggle's. If they weren't being shoddy salesmen that should have taken all of 3 minutes to do. So big whoop.

The person he dealt most with made the sale, so he is happy.

Of all the people that legitimate salespeople should want to deal with, Homeslice is the perfect example. A person who has done their research, knows what they want and had an offer in place to beat. That's the exact opposite of a person who doesn't even know if he wants a new truck or used compact car, need to check with their significant other before making the deal, need to come back later after they look up the other features they didn't know about, aren't sure they can afford it, never really had an intent on actually buying but just shopping etc. etc. Besides, they're salespeople...their job is to make the sale.

The only people who wouldn't want to deal with Homeslice are shoddy salespeople looking to take advantage of ill-informed shoppers as easy marks.

[temple5]

Dont get upholstry/rust protection lifetime protection.

Lifetime at dealerships = 7 years.

Will lie directly to your face, then 3 months later will get a letter defining the word "lifetime".

[Homeslice]

Wow did not expect that response GL. Just trying to share my experience with others in the hope of paying it forward - buying a new car is stressful and expensive, at least it was for me.

And while I really thought Unhaggle was a great tool, that's all it is - a tool. I thought I shouldn't have to explain that when you're out negotiating the price of a car, you still have to negotiate and shop around - price checking is just basic common sense. Anyways, I don't want this to be a rant thread - take my post for what you will. I hope my experience can help someone make an informed decision down the road.

[Homeslice]

Originally Posted by NuclearFart

It has nothing to do with respect of the salesman.

It's about shopping around to meet a material demand at the best price, which is entirely normal human behavior and an elementary concept of consumerism. If salesmen are butt hurt over this phenomena, they really shouldn't be in sales.

Exactly, in fact I have even more respect for the salesman that is upfront and honest with me right from the start.

The same discounted price the Unhaggle salesman first gave me was still the same price at the end, but with lots of stuff thrown in. That tells me:

1.) he was being honest about that price from the get go, even though my business could have potentially gone somewhere else, and

2.) his price was still better than other dealerships. No time wasted, no tears lost.

That, in my opinion, deserves my respect and he got my business because of it.

[Homeslice]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Thanks for showing us your true colours.

RE: Unhaggle dude
Glad you got a great deal you're happy with! I think that's the most important part, that you're happy with the price and happy with the additions. I considered Unhaggle, but will definitely keep it in mind after that review!

Great work shopping around.

Thanks PepsiFree! BTW, for what it's worth, I only used the free report that Unhaggle provides (I think they include ten free quotes under a single email address). There is an option to pay $100 for Unhaggle to negotiate on your behalf to all the dealers in the local area, but I wanted to have some fun and do some research on my own.

I should clarify that the Unhaggle guy I mentioned in the previous post is an actual dealership employee, not an Unhaggle employee. He just acted as his dealership's "authorized Unhaggle agent", if that makes sense.

[Homeslice]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I played with idea of buying a new car a few years ago. I went to a Honda dealership and got to the point where I thought I could haggle and the salesman became really indignant and said that Honda doesn't haggle. The price he gives is the final price.

I'm not sure if he was bluffing or not, but I got up and left. I thought haggling when buying a car was normal, but he made it sound like it wasn't.

That pissed me right the F off - Honda is especially bad in Calgary as they believe that the brand is worth so much that they will not even talk to you if you try to negotiate, like you're wasting their time (I bought a Honda Civic in 2006 but also recently test drove the 2016 Pilot). Most of the salespeople there are definitely "entitled" in that they feel they don't need your business because someone else will buy their cars.

T&T Honda is a prime example. They are the third largest dealership by volume in Canada and as as result, if you don't like the price, they will pretty much tell you to go home.

As far as I'm concerned, haggle the price of a car (new or used) should never be looked down on and is definitely a normal part of the process.

[burn_baby_burn]

As a salesman (not vehicles) I can tell you that I expect to haggle on every deal. Not that I enjoy it (I hate haggling when I'm the buyer), but I need to be prepared to negotiate on every deal. Some buyers love to haggle, they live for it. Others don't. I had no formal training and have basically just learned from experience that sales is a balancing act. I need to make some money, but I need to have a competitive price or I can lose the sale right off the bat. I also need to leave some room to negotiate because some buyers need to do that to feel they've gotten a good deal.

Bad salesman won't be able to feed themselves. Good salesman will have happy customers that trust them and come back time after time. It's a process, and I feel it's about being freindly, honest, reliable and fair.

[I_H8_Crawford]

Here's a question:

I negotiated a deal with one dealer for a new car, got it from $50K to ~$41K with trade-in.
Dealer actually lied to me on the Trade in Value - said we had a deal (at $40K) then when I get there with my wife and baby he changes it to $41K - we walked as I won't give someone who lies any business.

Dealer B has a "Service Loaner" car - exact model/color I want, under 5000KMs on it.

They offered it to me at $41K on Saturday.

1) Would you ever buy a service loaner? It is classified as used, and they say it is too new to be a certified pre-owned vehicle.

2) How low do you think I can get them to go? They will obviously use their $41K price as a discount on MSRP, but if I have that other deal on the go, can I negotiate off of that? I would like to get this loaner to ~$36K if I can.

3) Would you buy new instead if I can get them to match the $41K offer from Dealer A?

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

Here's a question:

I negotiated a deal with one dealer for a new car, got it from $50K to ~$41K with trade-in.
Dealer actually lied to me on the Trade in Value - said we had a deal (at $40K) then when I get there with my wife and baby he changes it to $41K - we walked as I won't give someone who lies any business.

Dealer B has a "Service Loaner" car - exact model/color I want, under 5000KMs on it.

They offered it to me at $41K on Saturday.

1) Would you ever buy a service loaner? It is classified as used, and they say it is too new to be a certified pre-owned vehicle.

2) How low do you think I can get them to go? They will obviously use their $41K price as a discount on MSRP, but if I have that other deal on the go, can I negotiate off of that? I would like to get this loaner to ~$36K if I can.

3) Would you buy new instead if I can get them to match the $41K offer from Dealer A?

I wouldn't buy a service loaner. It is a used car (and heavily used at that).

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

1) Would you ever buy a service loaner? It is classified as used, and they say it is too new to be a certified pre-owned vehicle.

2) How low do you think I can get them to go? They will obviously use their $41K price as a discount on MSRP, but if I have that other deal on the go, can I negotiate off of that? I would like to get this loaner to ~$36K if I can.

3) Would you buy new instead if I can get them to match the $41K offer from Dealer A?

About 2) and 3) - it really depends on how in demand the car in question is. If it's a hot seller like a Honda Pilot or a Sienna AWD, you're screwed in terms of what you can get off MSRP. Dealer will sell to the next person for higher profit.

As for buying new - vs used - keep in mind sometimes there will be incentives on a new car sale that make it more favorable to go new. If there was $2,000 cash from the manufacturer for example, why not get the new car?

An interesting side note: certain dealers are loving in demand models that are used as they can sell them into the US for top dollar. Subaru dealers are forbidden from selling new cars to the US, so they're willing to give sweet trade in values on new car sales to build inventory to export to the US.

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

1) Would you ever buy a service loaner? It is classified as used, and they say it is too new to be a certified pre-owned vehicle.

I'm pretty certain our Mazda 2 was a service loaner, as the carfax had it listed as a "rental/fleet vehicle" in it's history, and I know Mazda was using the 2's as courtesy cars for a while.

Having said that, we still bought it as it was certified pre-owned, less than 50,000km and less than 2 years old. Had it not been certified pre-owned we likely would have walked.

So short version, yes I'd buy a service loaner in good shape, but not if it wasn't with the benefits of a certified pre-owned condition.

[Stealth22]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

Here's a question:

I negotiated a deal with one dealer for a new car, got it from $50K to ~$41K with trade-in.
Dealer actually lied to me on the Trade in Value - said we had a deal (at $40K) then when I get there with my wife and baby he changes it to $41K - we walked as I won't give someone who lies any business.

Dealer B has a "Service Loaner" car - exact model/color I want, under 5000KMs on it.

They offered it to me at $41K on Saturday.

1) Would you ever buy a service loaner? It is classified as used, and they say it is too new to be a certified pre-owned vehicle.

2) How low do you think I can get them to go? They will obviously use their $41K price as a discount on MSRP, but if I have that other deal on the go, can I negotiate off of that? I would like to get this loaner to ~$36K if I can.

3) Would you buy new instead if I can get them to match the $41K offer from Dealer A?

1) No, at least not one that new. If I am spending that much on a car, I'll spend just a little bit more and get one that is actually brand new. If I plan to buy a new car, I'm not going to walk out with a used one.

2) There are a lot of factors that go into that...do you mind sharing what kind of vehicle you're looking at?

3) See #1.

[I_H8_Crawford]

Originally Posted by Stealth22

1) No, at least not one that new. If I am spending that much on a car, I'll spend just a little bit more and get one that is actually brand new. If I plan to buy a new car, I'm not going to walk out with a used one.

2) There are a lot of factors that go into that...do you mind sharing what kind of vehicle you're looking at?

3) See #1.

Looking at the Lexus ES300h.

Reason I was looking new was for leasing (I can write off Lease payments) and there wasn't much used out there in the trim I want.

[Stealth22]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

Looking at the Lexus ES300h.

Reason I was looking new was for leasing (I can write off Lease payments) and there wasn't much used out there in the trim I want.

Have you looked at a site like Unhaggle or CarCostCanada? Or have you already got the dealer invoice price? I would use that as a baseline for negotiations.

I would also ideally separate the trade in from the purchase of the new car. Otherwise they'll offer you X amount for the old car, and say "Look, you're getting X thousand off your new car!"

The whole reason people don't trust car salesmen is this sort of bull#### that goes on.

[I_H8_Crawford]

Originally Posted by Stealth22

Have you looked at a site like Unhaggle or CarCostCanada? Or have you already got the dealer invoice price? I would use that as a baseline for negotiations.

I would also ideally separate the trade in from the purchase of the new car. Otherwise they'll offer you X amount for the old car, and say "Look, you're getting X thousand off your new car!"

The whole reason people don't trust car salesmen is this sort of bull#### that goes on.

Oh yeah, I had one deal ready to go at Royal Oak Lexus for a new car, 1% markup on Car Cost invoice pricing (before trade-in), but the idiot sales guy lied to me about TiV (I asked for $5K he could only get $4, but instead of telling me that over email, he tells me we have a deal and springs it on me when I drive 30 mins out to the dealership).

So with this service model, I essentially want to tell them I have a deal at $41K for a new car, and am willing to take this used model off their hands for $36K

I will offer it to them with the condition that it passes an inspection from an independent mechanic... worst thing that happens is they say no haha

[Stealth22]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

Oh yeah, I had one deal ready to go at Royal Oak Lexus for a new car, 1% markup on Car Cost invoice pricing (before trade-in), but the idiot sales guy lied to me about TiV (I asked for $5K he could only get $4, but instead of telling me that over email, he tells me we have a deal and springs it on me when I drive 30 mins out to the dealership).

So with this service model, I essentially want to tell them I have a deal at $41K for a new car, and am willing to take this used model off their hands for $36K

I will offer it to them with the condition that it passes an inspection from an independent mechanic... worst thing that happens is they say no haha

Give it a try...like you said, worst that can happen is they say no. Like I said, I personally would rather have the brand new one, but that's easy for me to say sitting at my keyboard, when its not my money. There is the part about saving $5K in the process, lol.

That being said, if your plan doesn't work for whatever reason, did the first guy at Royal Oak say (or at least acknowledge) the $5k trade offer in writing? Cause if so, you have some leverage with him...but even if he didn't, you can always go to his boss and ask if he's really willing to lose out on a sale over a measly $1000.