Anyone know if they have actually tested out some smaller gear? Say reduced chest/arm protector size and legs pads, shorter and narrower. Have them make up a couple of sets, get some minor league guys together and scrimmage, see what happens.
The reason there was so much more scoring, seeming creativity, and "wow" moments in the NHL in the '70s and '80s than now is because the gap in talent from the top to the bottom has closed. The greatest players in today's game are just as great as the stars of bygone eras, but the middling and bottom end players are much, MUCH better.
I always mention this because if you watch a 70s or 80s era game you can tell the difference.
Yes, there were more 'WOW' moments because a superstar was totally undressing some beer leaguer.
You only need to look at some anecdotal evidence of people who have played with guys that may just not have been drafted or were career minor leaguers or whatever, they just never made it, they go and play Sunday-night shinny and yeah, they look like Crosby coming through the middle.
So yeah in the 80s you could have Hull stream down the wing while he blows by BeerGut McGee who on his third whiskey on the bench but a proper dman is going to slam him through the boards.
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I agree that tender equipment is the biggest thing that needs to change. If anything, advancements in equipment means goalies should be able to be protected with less, but better stuff, not more.
I also like Eric D's suggestion to take Assistant Coaches off the bench. The game is over-coached.
I think you can reduce the massive chest armor the goalies have today with equipment more akin to a regular skaters gear in size. I wouldn't however reduce the size of the blocker or glove. Their size hasn't really helped them any more than the old one anyways and as the most mobile tool in the goalies arsenal, I'm okay with them being the size they are right now. Epecially if you're going to reduce the sizing on everything else. I think you can make the pads narrower but due to the growring size of todays goalies over all, I don't think it is wise to shorten them. It may help closing the gap in a butterfly but taking a puck to an exposed thigh/knee isn't the safest thing ever either.
Do you honestly believe this? Using an inferior wood stick, Bobby Hull could apparently shoot a wrist shot harder than Chara rips a slapshot. Its such a stupid statement its barely worth responding to. These numbers are so off base from reality they are absolutely meaningless.
Do you honestly believe this? Using an inferior wood stick, Bobby Hull could apparently shoot a wrist shot harder than Chara rips a slapshot. Its such a stupid statement its barely worth responding to. These numbers are so off base from reality they are absolutely meaningless.
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Originally Posted by JayP
Do you honestly believe this? Using an inferior wood stick, Bobby Hull could apparently shoot a wrist shot harder than Chara rips a slapshot. Its such a stupid statement its barely worth responding to. These numbers are so off base from reality they are absolutely meaningless.
As a big sports fan and a lover of hockey and the history of the game I think what a lot of fans have difficult understanding IS the separation between the best of today and "back in the day"
I think its hard for a lot of young fans to think of players from years ago could play in the type of conditions that they did. Players like the "Rocket" played with a cheap wooden stick, no curve, something that looked like a boot with a rusty blade screwed on it. These players traveled via rail and played in rinks that didn't have the same size dimensions. The guy was a 500+ goal scorer and made peanuts compared to today.
Players like Gordie Howe played until they were 52 years old. Like honest to god, who is going to be able to come close to that in today's NHL? Jagr is turning 44 in a month or 2 and Chris Chelios played until he was 46 or 47.
#99 scored over 200 points on 4 separate seasons. Nobody in this league will come anywhere close to that. How about 50 goals in 39 games?
The game has just changed in a lot of ways. Some for the good and some for the bad. A lot of records that have occurred in hockey aren't likely to be broken. Some hockey players and executives have had their names engraved on the cup more times than they have fingers. I really don't see too many players these days who are going to get 7-10 cups.
The same level of separation is also prevalent in music and show business. A friend's daughter the other day had difficulty understanding that Justin Bieber wasn't even in the same breath when it comes to sales to artists like Michael Jackson, Elvis etc.
We researched some things and she came up with a list of music "superstars" Artists who have been some of the top selling for years and not just the latest sensation. That list combined didn't even touch the likes of MJ,Elvis, Madonna, The Beatles etc I get the notion that its not an accurate comparison to compare Justin Bieber to Elvis but just trying to illustrate a point about separation in history.
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I think you can reduce the massive chest armor the goalies have today with equipment more akin to a regular skaters gear in size. I wouldn't however reduce the size of the blocker or glove. Their size hasn't really helped them any more than the old one anyways and as the most mobile tool in the goalies arsenal, I'm okay with them being the size they are right now. Epecially if you're going to reduce the sizing on everything else. I think you can make the pads narrower but due to the growring size of todays goalies over all, I don't think it is wise to shorten them. It may help closing the gap in a butterfly but taking a puck to an exposed thigh/knee isn't the safest thing ever either.
F that. The blocker and the catcher definitely needs to shrink. Christ almighty, the catcher has an attachment called "the cheater" for crying out loud. The catcher has increased in size to the point where it is the size of a hub cap. To think, people spazzed back in the 40's when a 1st baseman's glove was adapted for goaltending play. Now you have a glove that would make Hal Chase a vacuum.
Leg pads have become ridiculous as well. They are no longer designed for protection, they are designed to cover portions of the ice. They have a portion called "landing gear" which is what protects the knee from impact when the goaltender drops to his knees. This also allows the pad to rotate and remain square to the ice, creating a barrier along the ice. This isn't for protection, but designed to keep pucks out of the net.
All of this has nothing to to do with protection and has to do with covering open portions of the net. Goaltending is no longer about being able to make sames, but is about being in position to be hit by the puck. It's time to change things back to they way things were. Equip goaltenders to protect them, not cover the net.
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I saw an interview years ago with Phil Esposito where he talked about the size of goaltending equipment. He told a story from when he was in Tampa, he said he took one of his brother's old catchers from his days with the Blackhawks and compared it to the catcher Tampa's goalie was using. He said he could fit all of Tony's catcher in just the webbing of the modern glove.
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I agree with both of them but Guy, if you're troubled by teams playing dull dump and chase (and the trap), maybe you should have a chat with your old buddy Jacques Lemaire.
I don't think they were buddies. The way I remember it, when Lemaire was made coach of the Canadiens, he forced Lafleur into retirement by making him a part time player.
Yeah, the hockey skill has gone way up since the 70's, 80s and that's had an affect on the scoring. One little bit of a cure would be expansion but the best way is to make the nets bigger since the goalie gear down sizing seems to be a lost cause.
The same level of separation is also prevalent in music and show business. A friend's daughter the other day had difficulty understanding that Justin Bieber wasn't even in the same breath when it comes to sales to artists like Michael Jackson, Elvis etc.
We researched some things and she came up with a list of music "superstars" Artists who have been some of the top selling for years and not just the latest sensation. That list combined didn't even touch the likes of MJ,Elvis, Madonna, The Beatles etc I get the notion that its not an accurate comparison to compare Justin Bieber to Elvis but just trying to illustrate a point about separation in history.
Entertainment has fragmented into pieces. I read where a college instructor who had been teaching since the early 70s compared his students then and now. Every year he would ask his students who their favourite music artists were. When he started teaching, the class would be split about 50/50 between the Beatles and the Stones. He says now, the students almost all cite a different band, and half of them cite artists most of their classmates have never heard of. Same with TV. There used to be shows that had an audience of over a third of all people in the U.S. The most popular show on TV today is the Big Bang Theory, and about 7 per cent of Americans watch it weekly.
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I agree with these guys. Goalie equipment is the #1 problem. They are huge compare to the goalies' equipment in the 80s. I was watching the Top 50 goals in the 80s on Sportsnet the other night and you can tell the difference big time. I also agree with Ramo on his assessment with letting the goalies use their creativity with the smaller equipment. They don't need to make it exactly like the equipment in the past like 70s or 80s. Maybe in between. Bigger nets i don't think is the options.
#2 problem I think is the coaching style but not as much as anymore. I hated Lemaire's trap style and sometimes Hitchcock's coaching can be frustrating too but ever since he moved to St. Louis it is not as much anymore. Dave Tippett's coaching is pretty boring too. The only thing is these guys have proven they can win games that's why other follows.
I agree with these guys. Goalie equipment is the #1 problem. They are huge compare to the goalies' equipment in the 80s. I was watching the Top 50 goals in the 80s on Sportsnet the other night and you can tell the difference big time. I also agree with Ramo on his assessment with letting the goalies use their creativity with the smaller equipment. They don't need to make it exactly like the equipment in the past like 70s or 80s. Maybe in between. Bigger nets i don't think is the options.
#2 problem I think is the coaching style but not as much as anymore. I hated Lemaire's trap style and sometimes Hitchcock's coaching can be frustrating too but ever since he moved to St. Louis it is not as much anymore. Dave Tippett's coaching is pretty boring too. The only thing is these guys have proven they can win games that's why other follows.
and #3 take the loser point out and Tippett would have to change.
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I am all for improving the game, but I have a problem with the rose colored glasses school of thought where improving the game means trying to turn back time.
While there have been season to season ups and downs, for me hockey has been getting more entertaining as time goes on. In my opinion the 2014 Kings/Hawks playoff series is the most entertaining hockey ever aired.
In the 1980s hockey was a mess, almost unwatchable (special games where teams could have a lot less scrubs were better). I enjoyed playing hockey at that time, but watching my friends play was just as entertaining as watching a professional game. As time went on the average skill level of the players started to rise and the game got more interesting to watch. We have seen a lot of growing pains as game became a real sport, and many necessary rule changes happened to refine the game.
My point is let's keep refining the game. Let's keepmmaking it better. But trying to make it like it was in the past is not going to make it better. And the solution is not a simple thing. More goals or smaller goaltender equipment is not a silver bullet, and could backfire by making goals seem cheap and uninteresting. It needs a lot of thought and debate to get to the right solution.
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