QOTD: Pick your tandem

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by codynw

You're delusional.

The vets are fairly equal. If anything, Hiller was slightly better last year.

Hiller was average at best after November. There is a reason why the Flames had so many come from behind victories. Hiller, and Ramo, let in too many soft goals early. That can be a killer. Hiller's performance tranded downward as the year rolled on and Ramo's trended upward. Hiller should be the odd man out, and the fact that the team signed Ramo and has been trying to find a home for Hiller seems to indicate they agree with with me. So if I am delusional, so is Treliving and Hartley.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

I find it curious that Hiller had the best save percentage out of Calgary netminders by a fair margin and only 27% of the respondents want him back on the team.

Ortio had the worst save percentage last season and 97% want him on the team.


Do you think the perception of Hiller is colored by his two back to back poor playoff outings, rather than his season as a whole?

Is Ortio the result of shiny new toy syndrome? He didn't put up better numbers, but he is younger therefore he must be better in the future?

I think the a lot of the perception of Hiller is due to his age and the fact that he lost the net to Ramo in the playoffs (although he ended up with a much higher save percentage than Ramo in the playoffs). These things seem to outweigh the importance of stats both from last season and career-wise.

If you include the playoffs (in which Hiller has a career 93%), Hiller's career save percentage is as good as Carey Price's and Jonathan Quick's. They all have similar amounts of games played. Not saying Hiller is anywhere near as good, but sometimes he doesn't get the credit he deserves. His age hasn't affected him much so far, and 33 isn't that old.

I voted for Hiller/Ortio, because I feel like Ortio should be developed in the NHL (with Gillies in the AHL) and Ramo is too much of a gamble. In 4 seasons, Ramo has never had over 91.2%. Comparatively, Hiller has only been below 91.2% once in 8 seasons.

I am probably overvaluing the save percentage stat, but in this case, I think the difference is just too large to ignore.

[btimbit]

Ortio and whoever

[Flame19,289]

It seems that the hope from most posters here is that Ortio will be part of the tandem and will take the reigns and run with it.

But if Ortio struggles and becomes the de facto #2, I feel much more comfortable trusting Hiller to carry the bulk of the work, given that he's done it before. I'm not totally comfortable with Ramo getting 80% of the starts, if that were to become necessary.

I voted Hiller-Ortio.

[GioforPM]

I like Hiller in combo with Ortio better. He's steadier, way more experienced (which is what I want with a rookie as the other goalie). PLus the "soft first goal" thing is way overblown. Ramo's let in a few of those as well, and what looks like the occasional soft short side goal on Hiller is simply a matter of the percentages of his style (which a lot of goalie coaches employ). I also disagree that Ramo was way better in the POs. Statistically, they were almost a wash, except Hiller's save % was way better. Ramo made Belesky look like a star.

[Sainters7]

Ramo/Ortio, but frankly I'm fine with Ramo/Hiller. I know Ortio's young, but all my future Flames goalie hype is centered around Gillies, which has probably resulted in me being rather indifferent regarding Ortio's future here.

Regarding Hiller/Ramo, when at their best, Hiller's a little better. He's also more inconsistent IMO (my heart's always in my throat when he faces his first couple shots of a game), I just feel more comfortable when Ramo's in there. Just assumed Ramo was gone after last year, but after re-signing him, I think Hiller's the odd man out here, if Ortio finishes the pre-season strong.


Posted from Calgarypuck.com App for Android

[Fire]

Hiller and Ortio is the safer move. The Flames have the potential to be a really good team this season, I don't think you want to risk it by having a rookie and a guy who has never been a #1 in the NHL being the tandem. Keep and waive Ramo in case of injury to Hiller or Ortio. Obviously Ramo didn't garner much attention by other teams during the UFA discussion period so he took what he could with the Flames.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by New Era

Hiller was average at best after November. There is a reason why the Flames had so many come from behind victories. Hiller, and Ramo, let in too many soft goals early. That can be a killer. Hiller's performance tranded downward as the year rolled on and Ramo's trended upward. Hiller should be the odd man out, and the fact that the team signed Ramo and has been trying to find a home for Hiller seems to indicate they agree with with me. So if I am delusional, so is Treliving and Hartley.

The "delusional" part of your post was the part where you said Hiller was the weakest link on the team, and worse than Raymond.

That's simply not true. Him and Ramo both had bad and great stretches throughout the year. Nobody really "stole" the number one job at any point.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

I find it curious that Hiller had the best save percentage out of Calgary netminders by a fair margin and only 27% of the respondents want him back on the team.

Ortio had the worst save percentage last season and 97% want him on the team.


Do you think the perception of Hiller is colored by his two back to back poor playoff outings, rather than his season as a whole?

Is Ortio the result of shiny new toy syndrome? He didn't put up better numbers, but he is younger therefore he must be better in the future?

I honestly think in this new advanced stat age people want to boil things down to numbers and numbers only.

Travis Yost had a thing on Calgary goaltending last week saying there shouldn't be a controversy as Hiller is better. Case closed.

But it didn't feel that way.

The eye test said Hiller was struggling. he gave up early goals, and he was down hoping not to get picked off high.

This isn't to say he didn't play well when he was in the nets, because he did. He was a good add.

But I think the Flames are more vulnerable in net with Hiller than Ramo when teams starting (if they haven't already) taking the team seriously. Spend more time on video and you can easily see how to beat Hiller. He dares you to do it.

Ramo overplays the shooter and leaves himself open to the pass or rebound, not doubt, but one on one he's tougher to beat.

Ortio is a decorated AHL goaltender that has shown he can dominate at the NHL level with a limited sample size. You can't let that walk away when you're core is 19-24 years old. You can't.

if he's the man great. If he's the filler until Gillies is ready that's fine too. But two vets, both of which had below NHL save percentages last year are simply not the guys to retain.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Flame19,289

It seems that the hope from most posters here is that Ortio will be part of the tandem and will take the reigns and run with it.

But if Ortio struggles and becomes the de facto #2, I feel much more comfortable trusting Hiller to carry the bulk of the work, given that he's done it before. I'm not totally comfortable with Ramo getting 80% of the starts, if that were to become necessary.

I voted Hiller-Ortio.

Pretty much my thoughts too. I think it will be 60% Hiller and 40% Ortio.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by devo22

Hiller was unreal at the start of the season, IIRC his Oct/Nov numbers were crazy. But ultimately that was unsustainable and Ramo was outstanding in the playoffs.

Save percentages by month/series:

		Hiller		Ortio		Ramo
October		0.941		N/A		0.914
November	0.885		N/A		0.925
December	0.923		N/A		0.867
January		0.901		0.931		0.923 (1GP)
February	0.908		N/A		0.945
March		0.925		N/A		0.907
April		0.953		.773 (1GP)	N/A
vs Canucks 	0.931		N/A		0.905
vs Ducks 	.786 (1GP)	N/A		0.907
(Pre-2015)	0.952		0.979		0.938

[Flash Walken]

Ramo is better than Hiller on a per game basis, Hiller is better than Ramo over the course of an entire season.

Hiller let's in one stinker per game, Ramo let's in several stinkers every 2-3 games

I would rather have Ramo-Ortio as it gives Ortio a better chance of sustained play when Ramo inevitably loses it for a 10-15 game stretch.

[Toonage]

I think the coach/GM decisions speak loudest. They could have let Ramo walk, and they didn't. They pulled Hiller at the most crucial time of the year twice and he never got the net back after that second time. If he was the guy, they wouldn't have signed Ramo. This isn't about Ortio not being ready. If they thought that they wouldn't have signed him to his new deal, they would have cut ties.

[Finger Cookin]

I'm in the minority, but I prefer Hiller in net over Ramo. Ramo's style has just never filled me with confidence. He can get into a nice groove, but his tendency to be all over the place and flail out of position just never inspires confidence in me.

Regardless of which veteran sticks around, it sure would be great to see Ortio step up and succeed in any games he gets. It would be nice to have a young goalie grab the reins at a time when so much of our young roster seems to be making progress.

[FlamesAddiction]

I would take Ramo and Ortio. Ramo is a little younger than Hiller even though they are probably in the same class. I would hate to see Ortio go after seeing him develop.

I would accept Hiller and Ortio though if they were offered a great deal for Ramo.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I think the coach/GM decisions speak loudest. They could have let Ramo walk, and they didn't. They pulled Hiller at the most crucial time of the year twice and he never got the net back after that second time. If he was the guy, they wouldn't have signed Ramo. This isn't about Ortio not being ready. If they thought that they wouldn't have signed him to his new deal, they would have cut ties.

They also started Hiller more, and Hartley started him against Anaheim even though Hiller was pulled and Ramo won the final Vancouver game. That tells me he's Hartley's starter. I don't think the final three games changed Hartley's mind.

I think Treliving signed Ramo because (a) he wasn't sure about Ortio yet and (b) because Treliving's pattern is to hold as many cards as possible.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

I'm not sure if people who say Ramo over Hiller due to age are saying that because he has more years of play in him, or if he has more potential, but either argument doesn't make much sense to me. Ramo is 29, Hiller is 33. There's very little difference in terms of years left of NHL level play between these two, and Hiller is far more experienced. If you think Ramo is going to still develop, I think this is as good as he's going to be. Goalies rarely look a whole lot better past his age. He is what he is at this point, so don't expect much more.

[dammage79]

Hiller-Ortio for 2015-2016!

Stability Stability Stability. Say it again. Once more.

[dustygoon]

You know the upside of hiller and ramo. Known quantities.

You don't know ortio's ceiling. Ortio can give you probably the same level of goaltending as either of two older guys with optionality of something even better.

It would be the height of stupidity to waive ortio. And he's cheap at the moment.

[schteve_d]

I`m all for Ramo and Ortio. Does Hiller have any trade value at all being a UFA at the end of this season?