Who will be our starting Goalie in early November?

[Strange Brew]

Feel like I have been very negative on BT for the Raymond and Engelland signings and their associated price but on the other hand, the one UFA signing he absolutely nailed was Hiller. It was a total position of need and the term on the contract was perfect. Say what you will about our goaltending, but we have a lot of flexibility headed into next offseason.

Hiller was not a world beater but he solidified the goalie situation and his play, particularly at the start of the year, helped the Flames accumulate the points necessary to make the playoffs. The fact that BT was able to get him on a 2 year deal is an absolute win in my books.

[Vinny01]

My hopes are Ortio comes in and steals the job as a clear number 1. The fact we have 3 goalies entering contract years is a good thing for competition. We also have 2 very good goalies in the system so the goaltending picture looks good. We lack a legit #1 elite goalie but there are only a handful of those in the league.

I hope we don't lose Ortio on waivers and are able to get assets for one of Hiller and Ramo. Both Hiller and Ramo had up and down seasons last year but towards the end of the season I felt Ramo was the guy. Hiller was great in the early part of the year and was also fantastic against the Canucks.

Ideally again Ortio take a job and one of our veteran goalies is moved for picks or part of a larger deal that brings in a top 6 winger

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I hope we don't lose Ortio on waivers and are able to get assets for one of Hiller and Ramo. Both Hiller and Ramo had up and down seasons last year but towards the end of the season I felt Ramo was the guy. Hiller was great in the early part of the year and was also fantastic against the Canucks.

That's my single biggest concern heading into camp. You can't lose Ortio for nothing.

Hopefully he wins the job and it's an easy choice and they don't get cute trying to sneak him through.

The forward glut is similar in that they could lose a Shore or Ferland if they aren't careful, but it's less obvious given the other choices.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

That's my single biggest concern heading into camp. You can't lose Ortio for nothing.

Hopefully he wins the job and it's an easy choice and they don't get cute trying to sneak him through.

The forward glut is similar in that they could lose a Shore or Ferland if they aren't careful, but it's less obvious given the other choices.

Are you convinced there is an open competition for the top 2 goalie positions coming into camp? What would Ortio have to do to win the job given the relatively short timeframe?

Like you, I really don't want to lose Ortio but I still see him being sent down as the likeliest scenario.

As you say, same situation with forwards but I think this is a very difficult time of year to move surplus players. You could easily move Shore or Ferland but don't think they want to do that. If they make the team, do you send Raymond down? He would go unclaimed but there is no cap savings and good luck trading him after that.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Are you convinced there is an open competition for the top 2 goalie positions coming into camp? What would Ortio have to do to win the job given the relatively short timeframe?

As you say, same situation with forwards but I think this is a very difficult time of year to move surplus players. You could easily move Shore or Ferland but don't think they want to do that. If they make the team, do you send Raymond down? He would go unclaimed but there is no cap savings and good luck trading him after that.

- Yes, I believe that is the case. If Ortio plays as well or better than he did in his short stint last year, he'll have one of those spots and one of the others (I think Hiller due to more experience/bigger name, thus better return) will be traded.

- For the forwards, I think we see Bollig and Raymond traded/demoted before guys like Shore and Ferland are let go. I'm not sure they necessarily get through waivers, but if they do it's not a big deal to have their contracts until next year.

[Loudog]

Does anyone know the actual dates of training camp? First pre season game is the 21st so I'm assuming the week before?

[ricardodw]

I think that the expectation for Ortio have exploded on CP.

Reasons for that:

1. so unexpected to have a backup goalie win an NHL other than Kipper win a game during the Kipper era.
2. Great story in that he was perhaps the worst goalie ever in his first try at North America. After his 2011-12 NHL debut where he was basically lost playing on a good AHL team where Leland Irving was 26-15-2 and Ortio was sent home to Finland and he came back and had a unexpectedly great season in the ECHL/AHL.
3. In last year's call up he filled in an was not a total disaster.... going 4-2 when going 2-4 means no Flames playoffs.
4. 600k one-way contract ( to keep him in North America?)
5. He is from Finland

Based on last years performance where it would be hard pressed to say that he was a top 10 AHL goalie.

His NHL stats are adequate for a emergency fill in 8-6 .899 sv pct and 2.52 GA

However his .908 sv % last year that gave the Flames the playoff spot does not translate to anything better than a .500 winning %. Him going 15-15 mean the Flames likely don't make the playoffs unless Hiller or Ramo give a 2014-15 Dubnyk performance

Darcy Kumpner 14-12-5 .905 sv % 2.60 GA would be a great season for Ortio. Anyone think that the wild make the playoffs going with Kumpner instead of Dubnyk?

Kumpner had a .926 sv % in Iowa Ortio . 916

Trying to step away and do an un-impassioned analysis:

CP rates Gillies a better prospect than Ortio. Gillies was rated as the #8 best prospect by the Hockeywriters Ingoal has Gillies a #10


Strange Brew asked what would Ortio have to do to win the job in a short time frame.... What would Ortio have to do to so impress another team that when the Flames waived him they would be willing to commit an NHL spot to him for a complete season?

Would the Flames claim Kumpner and have him in the NHL for a full year? I don't think they would even look at him seriously.


There was a totally different dynamic when the Flames were not expected to make the Playoffs. Now that they are spending close to the cap there is a lot less room to make mistakes that could ruin the season.

[DoubleF]

I think Ortio will be 1B by November and debatable 1A by season's end. I think we may run a 3 goalie tandem until a trade is made to avoid possibly losing Ortio to waivers.

I'm wondering if one of Hiller and Ramo are moved within a few weeks of training camp (preseason).

[Itse]

Hiller and Rämö are not top end goalies, so if Ortio can't beat them for a spot, I doubt anyone will want to be stuck with him in the regular roster.

[Imported_Aussie]

My prediction: Ortio gets waived and clears, has a good training camp but not stealing a place. He clears because other teams are already set in net.
Flames run with Hiller + Ramo, playing the hot hand. When the first major goalie injury/form slump occurs, the Flames are poised to deal, or if that injury/slump is Hiller or Ramo, call up Ortio. Ortio ends up on the team full time by season's end.

What I like about Ortio is that he has much better rebound control than Hiller and Ramo. Hiller is a shot blocker, and when he is on he is hard to score and and steers rebounds to low % areas. When he is off, he gives second chance opportunities to forwards. Ramo is less positionaly sound but is very athletic - that is why he looks unbeatable for a stretch, then lets in stinkers. Ortio has the best skillset, suggesting upside, but is unproven.

Ortio is just inexperienced at the top level, and I am not sold on him as the #1B, which he would have to be with a starter like Hiller or Ramo. If the Flames had a starter who could easily start 55-60, then Ortio is your perfect backup. But in a 1A/1B situation, he is a risk.

Couple this with Treliving's stance on earning a place, and unless Ortio is phenomenal in camp, he is not starting on the Flames roster.

[bax]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

I think that the expectation for Ortio have exploded on CP.

Reasons for that:

1. so unexpected to have a backup goalie win an NHL other than Kipper win a game during the Kipper era.
2. Great story in that he was perhaps the worst goalie ever in his first try at North America. After his 2011-12 NHL debut where he was basically lost playing on a good AHL team where Leland Irving was 26-15-2 and Ortio was sent home to Finland and he came back and had a unexpectedly great season in the ECHL/AHL.
3. In last year's call up he filled in an was not a total disaster.... going 4-2 when going 2-4 means no Flames playoffs.
4. 600k one-way contract ( to keep him in North America?)
5. He is from Finland

Based on last years performance where it would be hard pressed to say that he was a top 10 AHL goalie.

His NHL stats are adequate for a emergency fill in 8-6 .899 sv pct and 2.52 GA

However his .908 sv % last year that gave the Flames the playoff spot does not translate to anything better than a .500 winning %. Him going 15-15 mean the Flames likely don't make the playoffs unless Hiller or Ramo give a 2014-15 Dubnyk performance

Darcy Kumpner 14-12-5 .905 sv % 2.60 GA would be a great season for Ortio. Anyone think that the wild make the playoffs going with Kumpner instead of Dubnyk?

Kumpner had a .926 sv % in Iowa Ortio . 916

Trying to step away and do an un-impassioned analysis:

CP rates Gillies a better prospect than Ortio. Gillies was rated as the #8 best prospect by the Hockeywriters Ingoal has Gillies a #10


Strange Brew asked what would Ortio have to do to win the job in a short time frame.... What would Ortio have to do to so impress another team that when the Flames waived him they would be willing to commit an NHL spot to him for a complete season?

Would the Flames claim Kumpner and have him in the NHL for a full year? I don't think they would even look at him seriously.


There was a totally different dynamic when the Flames were not expected to make the Playoffs. Now that they are spending close to the cap there is a lot less room to make mistakes that could ruin the season.

I think this might be the first time I've agreed with you. Good post

[David Struch]

Mike Smith or maybe even Kari Lehtonen?

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Loudog

Does anyone know the actual dates of training camp? First pre season game is the 21st so I'm assuming the week before?

Sounds about right. I'd imagine fitness testing on September 14, on-ice sessions starting September 15

[Major Major]

I like Ortio and he is a part of my 'ideal' goalie tandem, but what the Flames have done is prepared themselves to deal with most goaltending scenarios by having the three going in. covering these types of scenarios could be the difference between making and not making the playoffs... establishing yourselves or raising questions.

If Ortio is shaky to start, you know hiller and ramo can stabilize. If Ortio is lost in this situation, oh well. If Ortio excels to start, he is in. Maybe starting as 3 goalies, but that's rectified as soon as goalies go down to injury.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by hockey.modern

Hiller/Ortio - Hiller will take control of starter but slowly Ortio will take the starter position by the second half of the season.

Highly unlikely but it would be awesome if Gillies dominates the AHL and we can trade Hiller for assets along with bringing Gillies to the big leagues

This would be my ideal situation as well. Roll with Hiller and Ortio in the same way they did last season with Hiller/Ramo.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Major Major

I like Ortio and he is a part of my 'ideal' goalie tandem, but what the Flames have done is prepared themselves to deal with most goaltending scenarios by having the three going in. covering these types of scenarios could be the difference between making and not making the playoffs... establishing yourselves or raising questions.

If Ortio is shaky to start, you know hiller and ramo can stabilize. If Ortio is lost in this situation, oh well. If Ortio excels to start, he is in. Maybe starting as 3 goalies, but that's rectified as soon as goalies go down to injury.

One of the problems with running with 3 goalies is the logjam at forward.

There are 17 forwards who are worthy of cracking the lineup. Only 2: Granlund and Ferland can be sent down - and I'm not even sure about Ferland.

So getting to 14 will be difficult. If they kept 3 goalies and had to get to 13, that would be extremely difficult and probably risks losing players they don't want to lose.

I think it comes down to whether Ortio can win a job out of camp - if so, great. If not, they risk him on waivers.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

One of the problems with running with 3 goalies is the logjam at forward.

There are 17 forwards who are worthy of cracking the lineup. Only 2: Granlund and Ferland can be sent down - and I'm not even sure about Ferland.

So getting to 14 will be difficult. If they kept 3 goalies and had to get to 13, that would be extremely difficult and probably risks losing players they don't want to lose.

I think it comes down to whether Ortio can win a job out of camp - if so, great. If not, they risk him on waivers.

Ferland would need to clear waivers. This is based on extensive discussion and learning about the waiver process I've done over the offseason. And it's confirmed by the waiver calculator on Hockey'sCap.

[Strange Brew]

I am with Ricardo. I believe it will be hard for Ortio to win a job out of camp. He will have to be a lot better than the others in a short time period. But I also think the risk of losing him on waivers is relatively low. Also, if we do trade a goalie, it could well be him.

If a guy like Shore doesn't win a job out of camp, I suspect he clears waivers as well. But in addition to Granlund and Ferland (maybe) we can also send Raymond and maybe even Bollig and Byron down and their risk of being claimed is relatively low. We are still not the Blackhawks so if you can't make our team out of camp you are not guaranteed to be a regular on every other team.

Raymond would have no chance of being claimed but then next summer you almost have to buy him out or trade him with a pick in a salary dump. By sending him down, you establish his value as an AHLer.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I am with Ricardo. I believe it will be hard for Ortio to win a job out of camp. He will have to be a lot better than the others in a short time period. But I also think the risk of losing him on waivers is relatively low. Also, if we do trade a goalie, it could well be him.

If a guy like Shore doesn't win a job out of camp, I suspect he clears waivers as well. But in addition to Granlund and Ferland (maybe) we can also send Raymond and maybe even Bollig and Byron down and their risk of being claimed is relatively low. We are still not the Blackhawks so if you can't make our team out of camp you are not guaranteed to be a regular on every other team.

Raymond would have no chance of being claimed but then next summer you almost have to buy him out or trade him with a pick in a salary dump. By sending him down, you establish his value as an AHLer.

I disagree. If he plays as well or better then two vets he will get a job. Losing him to waivers is a risk I don't think this management is ready to take. Hiller is definitely not the future, Ramo the jury is still out on him.

Easiest solution is to trade/waiveHiller when Ortio performs at the training camp.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by getbak

Here is each team's current goalie situation with a month to go before training camp...

[FONT="Courier New"]ANA - Khudobin, Andersen
ARI - Smith, Lindback
BOS - Rask, Smith
BUF - Lehner, Johnson
COL - Varlamov, Berra
CBJ - Bobrovsky, McElhinney
MTL - Price, Tokarski
NJD - Schneider, Kinkaid
NYI - Halak, Greiss
PHI - Mason, Neuvirth
PIT - Fleury, Zatkoff
SJS - Jones, Stalock
TBL - Bishop, Vasilevskiy
TOR - Bernier, Reimer
VAN - Miller, Markstrom
WAS - Holtby, Peters
----------

Arugably, Ortio might be a fit on any of these teams. Not sure he would pass through waivers, unless he had an absolutely horrid training camp