If you were in Treliving's shoes would you use or threaten to use an offer sheet?

[mikephoen]

Offer sheets that target teams in your own division are the best. Even if the other team matches you've thrown a wrench into their plans.

O'Reily and Colorado already had a strained relationship, but the offer sheet made sure that it stayed a problem.

I would have no problem with the Flames offering Tarasenko or Hamilton 5 x 7.3 contracts. What are the odds that the player taken 1st over all in 2016 is better than either of those players? And through the offer sheet you get those players right away. The first overall in 2016 will be hitting his prime in the 2018/2019 season at the earliest, where as Hamilton and Tarasenko are hitting their primes in 2015/2016 right along side Johnny and Monahan, and while Gio is still at his peak.

Some risk of upsetting the team salary structure, but if it helps the team win playoff rounds, then it's probably worth it.

[Table 5]

I don't particularly like offer sheets, but a 1st/2nd/3rd for Hamilton is more than fair in my eyes. Chances are that 1st rounder won't be as good as Hamilton himself, and the 2nd/3rd are the price you pay for the development time and guarantee of quality.

The biggest risk is the money. You'd have to overpay him (or otherwise you wouldn't get him), which might throw your salary structure out of whack at some point.

[Enoch Root]

Offer sheets make no sense for a team that isn't in the playoffs. Not saying that the Flames won't be, but they might not be. And that makes the risk/cost too great.

The thing about offer sheets is that the compensation isn't fair or balanced. A top team has to pay a 27-30 pick while a team out of the playoffs has to pay a lottery pick for the same thing. Complete stupidity.

The other thing about offer sheets is that, by definition, you're overpaying. First, you have to offer enough that the other team doesn't want to match. Then, you also have to give up picks as compensation. In other words, you pay UFA rates AND you give up picks.

And when those picks turn out to be lottery picks, well then it is total folly, plain and simple.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Offer sheets make no sense for a team that isn't in the playoffs. Not saying that the Flames won't be, but they might not be. And that makes the risk/cost too great.

The thing about offer sheets is that the compensation isn't fair or balanced. A top team has to pay a 27-30 pick while a team out of the playoffs has to pay a lottery pick for the same thing. Complete stupidity.

The other thing about offer sheets is that, by definition, you're overpaying. First, you have to offer enough that the other team doesn't want to match. Then, you also have to give up picks as compensation. In other words, you pay UFA rates AND you give up picks.

And when those picks turn out to be lottery picks, well then it is total folly, plain and simple.

I can agree with this.

I forgot to drill in my brain that the lottery next year is going to be lottery based for the top 3 picks. Would really suck if the Flames Offer sheeted for someone, acquired the player, and barely missed the playoffs, only to get the 2nd or 3rd overall pick in the 2016 draft.

[CSharp]

Flames tried it before and the Avs ate it. But if it went the other way around, it would've been great for the Avs and it would've really sucked for the Flames rebuild.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I can agree with this.

I forgot to drill in my brain that the lottery next year is going to be lottery based for the top 3 picks. Would really suck if the Flames Offer sheeted for someone, acquired the player, and barely missed the playoffs, only to get the 2nd or 3rd overall pick in the 2016 draft.

Even if it is a lottery pick, there's no guarantee that player ends up being better than Dougie Hamilton. He's a 21 year old, 6'5 top pairing defenceman. Players like him don't grow on trees.

It's not like they'd be giving that pick up for something useless.

[Finger Cookin]

I've never been a fan of offer sheets because I think their very nature means you have to offer a bad contract in order to acquire a player.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by codynw

Even if it is a lottery pick, there's no guarantee that player ends up being better than Dougie Hamilton. He's a 21 year old, 6'5 top pairing defenceman. Players like him don't grow on trees.

It's not like they'd be giving that pick up for something useless.

I can agree with this too, it would definitely be a risk worth taking considering Boston's cap situation. Hamilton is a much better player to OS than ROR.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

In recent times, Edmonton has offer sheeted twice, Philadelphia twice, Vancouver, St Louis (in retaliation for Vancouver's offer sheet), San Jose and us have done it once.

Only once has it worked out (Penner) and we know who came out on top on that one.

You took the time to list the teams, but then not list the players? Boo.Who were the other players?

Edmonton: Penner, Vanek
Philadelphia: Weber, Kesler
Vancouver: Backes
St. Louis: Steve Bernier
San Jose: Hjalmarsson
Calgary: O'Reilly

I only know three off the top of my head.

EDIT: Bolded players I added after googling.

[Hemi-Cuda]

To get a player with an offer sheet that the other team won't match you need to seriously overpay in both dollars and draft picks, so IMO it's just not worth it when all a GM really gets out of it is pissing off his colleagues

[Vinny01]

No chance. In one year we have Monahan and Gaudreau that could be poached by the same type of move. Also for it to be successful for say a guy like Hamilton we need to offer something like $8.5M by 7 years and overpay him by at least $2M on the AAV.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Never for me. It feels like a move that combines the salary overpayment of free agency with the loss of assets of a trade.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

No chance. In one year we have Monahan and Gaudreau that could be poached by the same type of move. Also for it to be successful for say a guy like Hamilton we need to offer something like $8.5M by 7 years and overpay him by at least $2M on the AAV.

As previously mentioned in this thread, Gaudreau will not be eligible to sign an offer sheet when his current deal expires.

[#-3]

For sure he should threaten,

When it comes down to actually using one, the player has to accept a contract you are willing to offer, and with most of these high profile young hold outs that could become a real challenge. Assuming Hamilton gets an offer sheet what would it be for $6M +.

If I'm Treliving I'm probably pretty comfortable with Gio, Brodie, Russel, a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. But I would do it for $4.5M, a first and third in a heartbeat.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

As previously mentioned in this thread, Gaudreau will not be eligible to sign an offer sheet when his current deal expires.

Thanks I haven't read through the whole thread. Monahan would still be at risk however

[N-E-B]

Yes but only for Hamilton.

I'd trade a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for him in a heartbeat.

Boston will match any offers for him and work out their cap problems another way though.

[Blarg]

I would do it for Hamilton and Toffoli at $3.5 mill. Boston and LA are so tight up to the cap and you are not overpaying for them. Even if the offer sheets are matched, it forces the team to shed high cap players.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Blarg

I would do it for Hamilton and Toffoli at $3.5 mill. Boston and LA are so tight up to the cap and you are not overpaying for them. Even if the offer sheets are matched, it forces the team to shed high cap players.

I guarantee that L.A and Boston will make two trades each to get themselves out of cap hell and keep their RFA's. And it will be done on or before the draft.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Blarg

I would do it for Hamilton and Toffoli at $3.5 mill. Boston and LA are so tight up to the cap and you are not overpaying for them. Even if the offer sheets are matched, it forces the team to shed high cap players.

Boston can probably make room if they really need.. LA is in a bind. It'll probably take an overpayment, maybe not from just us but any of the 28 other teams that would pay more. $7.3M in the market these days is perfectly reasonable for Hamilton and Tarasenko (probably not enough) and maybe if you really were desperate, Toffoli.

As per the question, I would if it were for all, but I wouldn't kill myself for it - thats where other teams get pissed. If it were a reasonable offer, maybe $1M over their worth (cost of acquisition) then I don't think it will be such a issue.... Tarasenko is a game breaker, Hamilton is a cornerstone player, Saad can probably be had for less dollars and draft picks and Toffoli can take a game over and probably be easiest to take advantage of (LA's) cap.

[Blarg]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I guarantee that L.A and Boston will make two trades each to get themselves out of cap hell and keep their RFA's. And it will be done on or before the draft.

I would like to see them try, because some other team is going to get a great deal. No team is going to lend a helping hand when there is some juicy young player ripe for the taking.