Red Mile discussion #saferedmile

[Derek Sutton]

Oviously anyone being forced to do anything against there will is wrong. It is wrong though to chant "SHOW YOUR T*TS"? Some ladies thrive on this sort of thing, and love the attention, and bare chested females make us all happy. To steal from Rodney Carrington, if you love your Flames, show them to me.

Brief nudity

NSFW!

[DJones]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Sure, this all sounds about right. But let's stop using the term "sexual harassment" incorrectly, please.

Well at least they didn't use the word rape like some people are in these instances.

Whoever starts the website this year is an idiot. I wouldn't have my name anywhere near that. One underage girl and you're in trouble. As well as they will twist the meaning of consent. Meaning no one under the influence can possibly consent to flashing in public when they are being influenced by a crowd.

Not the same world as 04

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Sure, this all sounds about right. But let's stop using the term "sexual harassment" incorrectly, please.

Expand please?

It seems to be the correct use of the term to me.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Sexual harassment has an actual meaning and does not apply outside of workplace relationships or similar relationships of power imbalance (teacher/student for example). It also more often than not (though not always) refers to a pattern of behaviour rather than a one-off. It's been diluted by people to a point where people have said that any unwanted comment based on gender difference constitutes "sexual harassment", when in many cases it's just "being a creep".

Originally Posted by DJones

Well at least they didn't use the word rape like some people are in these instances.

From a legal (criminal) standpoint, rape and sexual assault are actually the same thing. So to the extent this behaviour does amount to sexual assault (i.e. girls getting their tits groped on the street by strangers), it's a meaningless distinction anyway.

Obviously, just telling someone to take their top off isn't sexual assault. It's cat-calling, basically, but with mob pressure behind it giving it that extra flavour of sleaziness.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

From a legal (criminal) standpoint, rape and sexual assault are actually the same thing. So to the extent this behaviour does amount to sexual assault (i.e. girls getting their tits groped on the street by strangers), it's a meaningless distinction anyway.

Obviously, just telling someone to take their top off isn't sexual assault. It's cat-calling, basically, but with mob pressure behind it giving it that extra flavour of sleaziness.

You did not say sexual assault in your other post. You said sexual harassment and "cat calling with mob pressure" as you said, is definitely sexual harassment.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by DJones

Not the same world as 04

I think this applies, but also from a technological standpoint. Back in 2004 few people had digital cameras; and those who did- the cameras were fairly poor quality. Not able to take a good shot in poor lighting from 50+ feet away. It was actually in the later rounds in 2004 that people started bringing professional cameras, and at that point the flashing really stopped.

Today most people have a camera on their phone that aside from the lens, is better quality than the professional equipment from 2004. So I really think that alone will make it a different atmosphere than 2004.

All that being said, Sunday night was great. Some high fiving with other Flames fans. Also ran into a good natured Canucks fan (I know- a paradox there.) Some good banter was exchanged; all friendly and fun. That's the type of thing I want to see- hockey fans having fun.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Expand please?

It seems to be the correct use of the term to me.

I think we all agree that any touching or groping is sexual harassment.

The grey area is when you are apparently guilty for the sole reason of being in the vicinity. My experience in 04 was girls showing off their goods on their own for the most part. Even that will no longer be allowed I'm assuming.

Unless you have their grandmother beside them giving the thumbs up the assumption will be the girl was pressured into it.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by redforever

You did not say sexual assault in your other post. You said sexual harassment and "cat calling with mob pressure" as you said, is definitely sexual harassment.

I wasn't following up on my other post, if you'll actually read what I wrote; I was responding to the post above me discussing the word "rape" in this context.

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

I would suspect things would be quite different if guys were subjected to the same kind of comments and had to drop their pants.

#showyourknobforbob

[redforever]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I wasn't following up on my other post, if you'll actually read what I wrote; I was responding to the post above me discussing the word "rape" in this context.

I see that you edited your original post...and you were the only one who used the word rape.

As per Alberta's Human Rights Commission

"What constitutes sexual harassment? Sexual harassment can be expressed in many ways, from very subtle to very obvious, through any of the following:

suggestive remarks, sexual jokes or compromising invitations;

verbal abuse;

visual display of suggestive images;

leering or whistling;

patting, rubbing or other unwanted physical contact;

outright demands for sexual favours;

and physical assault."

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I was not the one who originally used the word rape. The guy I quoted was. MOD EDIT: Unacceptable.

You're blatantly lying about the AB Human Rights Commission - this is directly off their website.

Sexual harassment is discrimination based on the ground of gender, which is prohibited under the Alberta Human Rights Act. Sexual harassment is any unwelcome sexual behaviour that adversely affects, or threatens to affect, directly or indirectly, a person's job security, working conditions or prospects for promotion or earnings; or prevents a person from getting a job, living accommodations or any kind of public service.

Sexual harassment is usually an attempt by one person to exert power over another person. It can be perpetrated by a supervisor, a co-worker, a landlord or a service provider.

If this is how you have conversations on the internet I have no interest in your obfuscating BS.

[troutman]

The Red Mile should only be about peace, unity, love and having fun.

[Buff]

The Red Mile is not all about females showing off their breasts. That was just a side show that received attention. Now, that group is making it feel like people are only going there to force females to flash.

I feel like these people want to stop the Red Mile from happening, even though they are only claiming to want to stop sexual harassment, this feels like so much more. There will be push back and I fear this won't end well.

[#-3]

I was 18 in '04, so my personal Boob experience considerable lower. And I thought it was pretty cool, while I don't think I was ever really one of the guys pushing the issue, I had no problem with looking when they were out there.

11 year later, I'd be pretty indifferent to it. I now see a pair every morning when my wife wakes up, I enjoy seeing them, but I don't really need to run around finding ways to see more.

I have problem with someone telling the vocal few to stop trying to force the issue. But if it starts happening on it's own again, all the power to the next generation of 18 year boys quadrupling their boobie experience in 1 night. I do have a problem with someone telling those kids there is something wrong with them for looking, there 18 year old boys, they should want to see breasts.

[CsInMyBlood]

In 2004 I had this manager that I could not stand. A real sleaze ball. Every morning during that run would have a gathering of some of his cronies in his office to look at the site that had girls flashing their boobs from the red mile.

He loved that site. It became their ritual. Until he saw two of his daughters on it.

Still makes me smile when I think about it.

[RedMileDJ]

nm

[FlamesAddiction]

I agree that grown men shouldn't be pressuring women to expose themselves, and we shouldn't be teaching young males that it is OK (either by doing it ourselves or passively letting it happen), by at the same time there are many young women that have exhibitionist tendencies, are proud of their bodies, and will do it on their own volition. Other women that have inhibitions, maybe due to body image issues or just based on principles, may feel pressured or embarrassed by that behavior and I can see how it would ruin the fun for them. It's probably also worth noting that men suffer from the same issues regarding body image and social pressure to be a certain way for the opposite sex, although it is not considered "manly" to discuss them.

I believe it is actually a natural part of sexuality. Obviously in civilized society, we oppress parts of our natural tendencies (and for good reasons), but let's not pretend that this behavior is all because of men behaving badly. Men can still do more to help make the atmosphere more friendly though of course.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I was not the one who originally used the word rape. The guy I quoted was. Go to hell if you want to put words in my mouth. I edited my second post - NOT my original post - to respond to undercoverbrother.

You're blatantly lying about the AB Human Rights Commission - this is directly off their website.



If this is how you have conversations on the internet I have no interest in your obfuscating BS.

See this might by what Jiri has been hinting at.....might be.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Can all of you 2004 hipsters just give it a break already?

How hipster are you? You even use the phrase organic to describe your experience 11 years ago. Go frost your tips if you love 2004 so much.

This season is as natural as any other sporting team in the playoffs. Car flags, appropriate colors schemes to match the home team, partying.

As for the thread title. Yeah, just relax with pressing women (and girls) to show their bodies, it's gross. Apologies to CorsiHockeyDude if any of this isn't the exact text book definitions.

[cracher]

By being published, this campaign has already hit its peak. IMO, they neglected to consider the audience and situation for the delivery of this message. What could possibly go wrong with discussing your moral compass with someone who cracked their first beer at 10am in the middle of a street party?

This is one of those fight fire with fire situations. Preaching won't help. To keep it fair, the ladies need to start chanting "Show them bones for David Jones" or "Flash the curlies for irrelevant Ferly".