Viral Singapore High School Math Problem (Spoiler)

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

http://www.theguardian.com/science/a...-maths-problem

Thank goodness for the internet age and I don't have to solve it myself.

Spoiler!

It looks like July 16 and August 17 are both legit based on your assumptions. (See comments + article)

Spoiler!

Again, no. Based on what was said, and the order it was said, August 17th is not an answer. Getting August 17th requires you to make an assumption that something was said before the first statement in the actual question, so August 17th is wrong.

The point of a logic question is that you do not/cannot make assumptions to get the answer, you can only use the information at hand to determine what is/can or isn't/cannot be correct/true.

[/QUOTE]

[Yasa]

Originally Posted by TheyCallMeBruce

It's ok. I'm allowed to use my people's words.

Haha, fair enough. You're not a Rosie O'Donnell after all.

[speede5]

Oh look, a Squirrel!

[topfiverecords]

Where's the math in this?

[polak]

I'm just happy that I got the best wrong answer apparently.

Honestly it's a confusingly structured question. It could be laid out in a much more simple manner.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by polak

I'm just happy that I got the best wrong answer apparently.

Honestly it's a confusingly structured question. It could be laid out in a much more simple manner.

That's the thing though, it's NOT a confusingly worded question.
It is a question that has specifically worded and ordered logical statements that allow you to eliminate possible answers in a specific way.

Part of the question is recognizing/understanding the difference between:

Albert saying he knows Bernard doesn't know (which comes before Bernard says anything, and which eliminates two months as the first step)

vs

Making the assumtion of Bernard saying he doesn't know prior to Albert speaking (which only eliminates two days)

The question doesn't have two answers like some people are saying, the question has 1 correct answer, and a whole bunch of wrong answers, one of which you can reach if you make an assumption that is not stated, and is therefore incorret, and do not follow the logic within the problem.

[polak]

The fact that there is a million and a half articles about the validity of the question pretty much proves that it's poorly worded. Hell right off the bat saying "Month and Day, Respectively" is much more confusing than saying Albert was told the Month and Bernard was told the day. Right off the bat something I would never imagine appearing on a Canadian diploma exam.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by polak

The fact that there is a million and a half articles about the validity of the question pretty much proves that it's poorly worded.

It is a poorly worded question.

"Cheryl tells Albert and Bernard seperately the month and the day of her birthday respectively."

It can be argued that this is an invalid English sentence because respectively means "in the order given".

Is "Albert and Bernard" the order or "Month and Day" the order?

This sentence could simply be worded as "Cheryl tells Albert only the month and Bernard only the day".

I'll be really PO if I come across this question during exam worded in its original way.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by polak

The fact that there is a million and a half articles about the validity of the question pretty much proves that it's poorly worded. Hell right off the bat saying "Month and Day, Respectively" is much more confusing than saying Albert was told the Month and Bernard was told the day. Right off the bat something I would never imagine appearing on a Canadian diploma exam.

No, it proves that there are at least 1.5 million people who either don't understand logic problems as well as they think they do, or don't understand what respectively means.

[Kybosh]

Singaporeans ain't so smart. Their train system is called SMRT. Dummies.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by darklord700

It is a poorly worded question.

"Cheryl tells Albert and Bernard seperately the month and the day of her birthday respectively."

It can be argued that this is an invalid English sentence because respectively means "in the order given".

Is "Albert and Bernard" the order or "Month and Day" the order?

This sentence could simply be worded as "Cheryl tells Albert only the month and Bernard only the day".

I'll be really PO if I come across this question during exam worded in its original way.

They are both the order, that's what respectively means.

She told Albert and Bernard the Month and Day respectively = she told Albert the Month and Bernard the Day.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by darklord700

It is a poorly worded question.

"Cheryl tells Albert and Bernard seperately the month and the day of her birthday respectively."

It can be argued that this is an invalid English sentence because respectively means "in the order given".

Is "Albert and Bernard" the order or "Month and Day" the order?

This sentence could simply be worded as "Cheryl tells Albert only the month and Bernard only the day".

I'll be really PO if I come across this question during exam worded in its original way.

But I don't believe anyone is confused or making assumptions on the part that you quoted. It may not get top marks in English class, but it is relatively clear that Albert was told the month and Bernard the day even if it takes a second read through. Similarly, everyone can figure out what it actually means when it starts the problem out "Albert and Bernard just become friends with Cheryl"

While you're right the sentence could be simplified to "Cheryl tells Albert only the month" I believe it's intentionally not done that way as keeping track of who has the day and who has the month is part of the problem, if minor.

Originally Posted by polak

The fact that there is a million and a half articles about the validity of the question pretty much proves that it's poorly worded. Hell right off the bat saying "Month and Day, Respectively" is much more confusing than saying Albert was told the Month and Bernard was told the day. Right off the bat something I would never imagine appearing on a Canadian diploma exam.

I can't recall the diploma, but I can certainly recall my math and science classes using "respectively" in very similar manner like this all the time. Part of the word problem was figuring out the problem in the first place, proper variables and the like.

[darklord700]

The second part of the question is almost cryptic.

Bernard:At first I don't know when Cheryl's birthday is, but now I know.

It is unclear what transpired from "at first" to "now". Obvoiously it was Bernard's knowledge that Albert declared he didn't know. But it was not where clear from this statement.

This question isn't a difficult one if worded properly. Most people here got the right answer if they managed to decyphe the meaning of these sentences.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by darklord700

The second part of the question is almost cryptic.

It is unclear what transpired from "at first" to "now". Obvoiously it was Bernard's knowledge that Albert declared he didn't know. But it was not where clear from this statement.

That's super super clear. At first he didn't know, the only thing we are told happened was that Albert said something. It should be obvious that what Albert said allowed Bernard to figure it out. That's using minimal logic.

Bernard didn't just happen to remember Cheryl mentioning she was a Taurus and therefore figure out she was born May 18.

Originally Posted by darklord700

This question isn't a difficult one if worded properly. Most people here got the right answer if they managed to decyphe the meaning of these sentences.

That's what most logic puzzles are though.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by darklord700

The second part of the question is almost cryptic.

Bernard:At first I don't know when Cheryl's birthday is, but now I know.

It is unclear what transpired from "at first" to "now". Obvoiously it was Bernard's knowledge that Albert declared he didn't know. But it was not where clear from this statement.

This question isn't a difficult one if worded properly. Most people here got the right answer if they managed to decyphe the meaning of these sentences.

I think the wording and terminology as well as the basic set of assumptions (ie. things are occurring sequentially, and nothing happens off the record) become very clear if you do a few more of these problems.

The wording, while cryptic, is standard for logic problems, and it's only because the vast majority of people are unfamiliar with this type of problem or brain teaser, that there is any confusion in the first place.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by polak

I'm just happy that I got the best wrong answer apparently.

Honestly it's a confusingly structured question. It could be laid out in a much more simple manner.

You're right. It's super complicated. Here's how they should lay it out for polak:

Cheryl's birthday is July 16. When is Cheryl's birthday?

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

You're right. It's super complicated. Here's how they should lay it out for polak:

Cheryl's birthday is July 16. When is Cheryl's birthday?

August 17?