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Old 03-19-2015, 08:44 AM   #41
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who is our Hossa, Sharp, Brouwer, Bolland, Versteeg, Ladd, Campbell, Byfuglien, and Hjalmarsson?

We need a Hossa type player to play RW, that is an element that we don't have.

Backlund, Hudler, Jooris, Bouma, Wideman and Russell fill some of those shoes and will only be even better next season.

We are still missing some pieces but I think we will find them in our org in the next couple of years.

I still goaltending is up in the air, we still don't have a large enough sample size to make a decision on Ortio and Gillies hasn't played a single pro game. I think their potential looks bright.

We can still have a strong draft this year to get a good defenseman and another top 6 player out of our 6 picks or whatever in the first 3 rounds. This will be a good draft for us.
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Old 03-19-2015, 08:55 AM   #42
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The problem with comparing Gio and Brodie to Keith/Seabrook is Gio's age in comparison to the rest of the core. Gio can probably sustain it for the next few seasons, but by the time this team is a Stanley Cup contender he will likely be past his prime.
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Old 03-19-2015, 09:09 AM   #43
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Lets just pump our brakes a bit
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Old 03-19-2015, 09:30 AM   #44
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Get people believing this then say that Raymond is the next Hossa and trade him in the summer!
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Old 03-19-2015, 09:37 AM   #45
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Great thread!

Thinking about it though, I see them much more like the dynasty Oilers.

Bennett - Gretzky (Both have the ability hold a hockey stick)

Monahan - Messier (Both have last names that start with M)

Gaudreau - Anderson (Both have probably eaten eggs in their lifetime [I'll admit this is a stretch, can't actually confirm.])

Hudler - Kurri (Jiri - Jari, I mean you can't get much closer than that)

Brodie & Giordano - Coffey & Lowe (All four of these players were born with eyes)

Ortio or Gilles - Fuhr or Moog (Blockers. All these guys wore blockers on one of their hands)

Bring on the Cups!
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Old 03-19-2015, 09:40 AM   #46
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What this thread shows is how far the Flames still are from being a true contender.

Still rebuilding.
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Old 03-19-2015, 10:06 AM   #47
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The comparison I really like is the Monahan-Gaudreau to Toews-Kane and I don't think it is outlandish at all. the big Canadian 2 way center and the smaller highly skilled American winger
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Old 03-19-2015, 10:12 AM   #48
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pfffft "Toews"

Pretty sure we have at least 5 of them on this team
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Old 03-19-2015, 10:43 AM   #49
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Wasn't a column just written on this exact same topic a week ago?

It was either Darren Hayes or some similar site. I am assuming the OP had read this and maybe should have referenced it, instead of claiming as his own. Also, the article posted better explanations and a case for caution.

EDIT: here it is - http://flamesnation.ca/2015/3/17/a-c...ago-blackhawks

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Old 03-19-2015, 10:53 AM   #50
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They are clearly the 89 Flames:

Monahan = Joe N.
Gaudreau = Mullen (or maybe Fleury)
Bennett = Gilmour
Bouma = Roberts
Hudler = Loob
Byron = Ranheim
Backlund = Otto, I guess
Colborne = Berezan, I guess
Jones = Peplinski, I guess

Gio = Suter
Brodie = MacInnis
Russell = Macoun
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Old 03-19-2015, 10:55 AM   #51
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Need a free Marian Hossa. He's the key piece most leave out in this comparison.
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Old 03-19-2015, 11:01 AM   #52
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While the 'Hawks top end guys are and have been spectacular, it has been the "depth" guys that made a huge difference during the playoff runs...in 2010, Brent Sopel was a shot blocking machine, and a key to the PK...in 2013, it was Hjarlmasson in that shot lane clogging role...Kruger/Frolik on the PK in 2013...guys with little hype, coming into their careers, like the aforementioned Kruger and Hjarlmasson, and guys like Saad, and Crawford ate minutes effectively.

And to this day, Q doesn't get nearly enough credit, for allowing the team to play a flowing and energetic style, with enough trust to roll 4 lines and 3 pairs, even in crunch time.

The question for the Flames, or any other team that would emulate the Blackhawk team building model, would be that kind of top to bottom trust in an entire roster, with confidence that mismatches aren't that big a deal, and that a team's worst line can hold it's own defensively.
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Old 03-19-2015, 12:25 PM   #53
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Quote:
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Need a free Marian Hossa. He's the key piece most leave out in this comparison.
Ya, I agree. This is the piece we are missing in my opinion and maybe we won't need him if we can get the most out of Bennett, Monahan, Gaudreau and potentially Poirier. We still need a dominant, top line RW. Without that I don't believe we have a chance at being a contender.

Can Poirier be that guy? I don't think we know right now if that is possible.
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Old 03-19-2015, 12:41 PM   #54
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The next Blackhawks type team possibly. With regards to comparing only the young building blocks there are definite similarities.
Monahan, Toews
Johnny, Kane
Bennett, Sharp
Brodie, is not equal physical wise as Keith or Seabrook but he is as offensively gifted.
Who knows maybe the next one to balance out a young D is Wotherspoon, Seiloff or Ramage.
That is the part that is a leap Keith and Seabrook were both world class caliber within 2 years.
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Old 03-19-2015, 01:08 PM   #55
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Kris Chucko = Chucko
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Old 03-19-2015, 02:16 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by foshizzle11 View Post
Ya, I agree. This is the piece we are missing in my opinion and maybe we won't need him if we can get the most out of Bennett, Monahan, Gaudreau and potentially Poirier. We still need a dominant, top line RW. Without that I don't believe we have a chance at being a contender.

Can Poirier be that guy? I don't think we know right now if that is possible.
Poirier has a shot. But not sure you need a dominant right winger if your LW is dominant. Lots of contending teams make do with two elite forwards and a decent supporting other winger on the top line, and a second line built kind of the same way.
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Old 03-19-2015, 02:39 PM   #57
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Poirier has a shot. But not sure you need a dominant right winger if your LW is dominant. Lots of contending teams make do with two elite forwards and a decent supporting other winger on the top line, and a second line built kind of the same way.
Totes. Sedins + X. Getzlaf/Perry + X.

PS re: your earlier post, can you imagine if Brodie had a clapper like MacInnis he'd win the Norris
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Old 03-19-2015, 03:15 PM   #58
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Poirier has a shot. But not sure you need a dominant right winger if your LW is dominant.
Gaudreau is not dominant 5vs5. He's dominant on the power play and 4vs4. I'm not sure Hudler is exactly "dominant" either, though he's a very smart player. Bennett will probably be our closest thing to a dominant LW, but he'll probably play more C than that.

We definitely need one genuinely deadly power forward winger on either the left or right side that can keep us in tight checking games 5vs5. It doesn't need to be a superstar but it needs to be a legit top 6 winger with size and a balanced skillset - puck handling, sniping, and an ability to power through contact.

If you look at just about every notable winger with size in the game, they're all first round picks though. Whereas you can get elite goaltending (Rinne), great depth forwards, awesome small skilled wingers (Hudler/Kucherov/Gaudreau), and elite defense (Chara/Brodie/Weber/Kieth/Josi) in the later rounds, the vast majority of dominant forwards, for our purposes wingers - Perry, Pacioretty, Voracek, Steen, Ladd, Tarasenko, etc were all first round picks. Overall it looks like if we want a player with some size that can be a part of our top 6 from the wings it probably has to be a first draft pick.

We had a shot to pick up Kevin Hayes in the offseason, Johnny and Bill Arnold tried to get him to come over but he went to the Rangers. He was a first rounder and already looks like the player that could have put us over the edge + had chemistry with Johnny. So damn close!

Are there any real first-round pick options in our system that can be that for us?:

- Backlund (who's never really played the wing. But he might actually be the best fit beside Monahan as he's not as in-love with the middle of the ice as Captain Boring. He's got decent size, he's definitely the closest thing we have to a Hossa defensively, and I wouldn't overlook his scoring ability as he's played a lot as the only legit top 6 player on his line. He had 18 goals last year and is on pace for 18 again this year, but has also increased that to a 23 goal pace since returning from injury. He could be comfortable on the left wing but I also like him on the right side)

- Bennett (who's a center, and probably stays at center, but he's gonna be our best sniper the moment he's on the roster)

- Emile Poirier (has the size, but I'm not sure he's an accurate sniper as a lot of his goals seem to come off the rush)

- Klimchuk (doesn't quite have the size, but he's a bit of a sniper. Could end up a Zetterberg type where he doesn't need the size. Or could never crack our roster and be traded like Sven was.)

- Our #1 Pick this year (who hopefully is natural RIGHT wing)

- Mark Jankowski (who's a center, and not really a sniper. If Backlund finds himself on the top line wings, Jankowski could be our most likely 3rd line center as he's a strong two-way player with high IQ)

- Joe Colborne (who's not really a sniper but he has size in spades and a deceptive shot)

Now - I did think of exceptions from later rounds - Milan Lucic, Patrick Sharp, and Jamie Benn. Are there any later round pick players could could be that kind of "exception" of player for us? In my opinion Drew Shore and Hunter Smith are the leading candidates. Both have the size and both have offensive talent, albeit in completely contrasting ways.

Shore's an interesting case in particular because he seems to have a valuable shot, even playing the point on the power play for Adirondack. You'll notice in games that he plays, the team shot charts actually shot attempts from the right circle. Maybe he's not a star, but the argument would be that beside a Sam Bennett realizing his potential, he wouldn't need to be.

There's also Granlund who doesn't have the size, but he's definitely a legit sniper on the wings. His shot is probably his best skill and doesn't get utilized enough when he's losing faceoffs and getting pinned in his zone as a center. But his lack of size suggests to me he's best suited as a depth scorer if we keep him. I think he could be the next Jiri Hudler circa 2008 someday for all we know but if that's his ceiling, he's not the solution.

TLDR version:

I really hope Hartley gives some of these guys a shot at more than just spot minutes on the bottom 6. It worked with Lance Bouma, and nowadays Bouma is playing way over his head like a 20 goal scorer next to Backlund. These above players (1st rounders + Shore/Granlund) all bring one thing in particular over Bouma and Jones: an ability to bring the puck through the Blueline themselves through clogged neutral zone which is what you need from your top 6ers. I actually believe Bouma can maintain his 20 goal pace that he's had since his bump up to the Backlund line - but the question is whether that's all you want that from your #2LW offensively. I just think Bouma's in a better position to succeed as a #3LW.
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Old 03-19-2015, 03:23 PM   #59
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Thread reminds me of this: http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...chicago-model/
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Old 03-19-2015, 04:29 PM   #60
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EV, I think you are assuming dominant = a big guy who can shoot. I don't. And then you say he doesn't need to be a superstar, which is exactly my point. You get an elite centre and winger and then put a guy in who can (a) keep up and (b) help out. For the most part we talk about pairs - Gretzky/Kurry, Trottier/Bossy, Toews/Kane, Getlaf/Perry, etc.

So I think Monahan/Poirier + Bennett/Gaudreau, plus a couple big and fast guys who are not necessarily elite would do the trick.

Plus a stud top pairing D, a good 3rd and 4th line and 2nd pairing, a hot goalie and a bunch of replacement parts and we're set.
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