Which of the Flames "established" 24/25 year old forwards are a part of the future? - Page 3 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

GioforPM · 03-09-2015, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

They're relevant in a discussion about veterans.

Fine. I still say you need veteran forwards.

Anyway, the question is which young forwards will be part of the future. My comments are not meant to be an opinion on the quality of the players themselves - they are what I think the team will do. Contracts and roles play a big part of that IMO.

Cali Panthers Fan · 03-09-2015, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Menace

I don't see room for Byron moving forward.
I think even Colborne, Jooris and Shore will be in tough to keep their jobs over the next few years, though I would certainly sign them all.
Backlund and Bouma should be key contributors for the foreseeable future.

I was going to post exactly this. Unless Colborne drastically improves his offensive production or defensive prowess, he'll likely move along. I like Jooris and Shore, but I'm not sure if those are the players you have in significant roles on a cup contending team. Byron is the definition of a utility forward.

The big caveat is that all of these players could improve and Backlund and Bouma could fall off the chart. However, from what I have seen, Backlund and Bouma will be essential bottom 6 shutdown forwards who can add offense, and high level penalty killers.

codynw · 03-09-2015, 01:07 PM

I'm thinking it'll end up being something like this.

Long term: Bouma, Backlund (if he doesn't get traded)

Potentially: Shore, Colborne (too early, need to see more from both)

Replaceable: Byron, Jooris

I like Backlund as much as anyone here, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was the odd man out once some of these younger centres start establishing themselves. I think he's traded within 2-3 years.

GioforPM · 03-09-2015, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

I was going to post exactly this. Unless Colborne drastically improves his offensive production or defensive prowess, he'll likely move along. I like Jooris and Shore, but I'm not sure if those are the players you have in significant roles on a cup contending team. Byron is the definition of a utility forward.

The big caveat is that all of these players could improve and Backlund and Bouma could fall off the chart. However, from what I have seen, Backlund and Bouma will be essential bottom 6 shutdown forwards who can add offense, and high level penalty killers.

Backlund's pretty cemented as the third line C for a long time IMO. Bouma is so versatile he will be around - he made a decent choice with a one year extension. I think he commands a much higher ticket this off season.

I see your point about Colborne - how he needs to figure out his role. Of course, he's only a 2nd year guy at a full time level, despite his age. His stats are pretty good this year and his faceoffs sure have improved. I have liked his down low offensive play lately.

Shore has already been more useful than Corbin Knight, so that trade was a win IMO. I think they will qualify him. I could see him as an eventual Stajan replacement.

GioforPM · 03-09-2015, 01:14 PM

The other thing is that, if the Flames are close to contending, some of the better young guys with decent contracts might get the most return in a trade for something the Flames think they need.

GranteedEV · 03-09-2015, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Fine. I still say you need veteran forwards.

Which, at this point, you've still got in Hudler and Backlund. These guys have played tons of NHL games in their career and rarely make mistakes, other than the occasional brain fart.

Gaudreau and Monahan have shown the maturity of veterans that most young teams would die for. They're right up there with the Tavares' of the NHL in that sense.
Colborne will be in his 6th year as a Pro (3rd exclusively in NHL).
Bouma's 6th year pro (his 3rd full year in NHL, and would probably be his 4th if not for his injured campaign)
Byron will be in his 5th year pro, 3rd in NHL.
Shore will be in his 5th year pro.

At some point you graduate to a veteran, and it usually happens when you've been on a disciplined playoff team.

And hey, if you make a mistake, you've got very experienced blueline and goaltending to depend on behind you. Don't forget there was a point in the season where Stajan, Raymond, and Jones were all injured and the Flames didn't miss a beat (well, they did have issues, but I'd argue that was mostly because Backlund was :also: injured). And there was a point where all three of those guys were back and the Flames hit an 8 game losing skid.

Quote:

Shore has already been more useful than Corbin Knight, so that trade was a win IMO. I think they will qualify him. I could see him as an eventual Stajan replacement.

I project Shore as a winger going forward who can fill in at center on the 3rd/3th line if (when?) Backlund is injured. His skillset, especially on the PP, is wasted on a 4th line.

I expect Bill Arnold to be our 4th line center eventually. But until then, Jooris and Colborne have both been very effective at center even on the 3rd line, so it's beyond luxury to have these guys on the 4th line if Bennett is our #2/#3 Center next year.

wingmaker · 03-09-2015, 01:18 PM

Wondering about Backlund. I really love him, great player, great guy, but I have a nagging feeling that he might be used to bring in a young defender, maybe even this off season. They have an abundance of centres who can play third and fourth line, and Bennett has shown too much to not think he will take one of the top two spots. Backlund could be a number two on a team that doesn't have a Monahan and a Bennett and is young enough (still an RFA) that he would have serious value around the league.

I'd be thrilled if Treliving re-signs him, but I wouldn't be shocked if we move forward with auditioning Granlund, Colborne, Arnold, Jooris, Shore etc for the third line and leave Stajan in the 4 spot.

Finger Cookin · 03-09-2015, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

They're relevant in a discussion about veterans.

Which isn't what this discussion is about. It's about 24-25 year old forwards. Start your own discussion thread if you want to talk about veterans.

GranteedEV · 03-09-2015, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

Which isn't what this discussion is about. It's about 24-25 year old forwards. Start your own discussion thread if you want to talk about veterans.

To keep all those 24-25 year old forwards who can only get better, you need to be willing to move veteran forwards who will at best plateau and at worst start to decline.

To move those veteran forwards, you need to still have a strong veteran core.

Don't pretend it's not all related.

Finger Cookin · 03-09-2015, 01:26 PM

Just trying to keep the discussion focused.

sa226 · 03-09-2015, 01:43 PM

Bouma and Backlund are no brainers.

Provided Shore and Jooris are on upward trajectories they are absolutely the type of guys you guild your bottom six around. I like Colborne, but I'm still not sure what he is. He shows flashes of offensive upside, but then goes for streaks. I wouldn't really call him an energy guy either. I would say he is movable. But he could very well be one of those "glue" guys.

Byron is a catalyst. His energy has sparked some of the famous comebacks, but I think the negativity surrounding him is because he is a known quantity. What he is now is what he will always be and I'm not entirely sure there is a permanent role for him on a contending team.

Colborne and Byron are the wild cards for me. If what we have seen from Shore and Jooris is just the tip of the iceberg, then they absolutely are here long term.

Cali Panthers Fan · 03-09-2015, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Backlund's pretty cemented as the third line C for a long time IMO. Bouma is so versatile he will be around - he made a decent choice with a one year extension. I think he commands a much higher ticket this off season.

I see your point about Colborne - how he needs to figure out his role. Of course, he's only a 2nd year guy at a full time level, despite his age. His stats are pretty good this year and his faceoffs sure have improved. I have liked his down low offensive play lately.

Shore has already been more useful than Corbin Knight, so that trade was a win IMO. I think they will qualify him. I could see him as an eventual Stajan replacement.

I think Backlund's development is pretty close to being done, but we've seen really strange things happen with players and they fall off the map. I don't see that happening with Backlund in particular, but just thought it was a point to consider.

Bouma will last in the NHL for as long as his body will let him. I could see him done by 30 though with how hard he bangs and crashes, but he does have Wolverine blood in him, so who knows how long he'll go for.

Colborne has made a lot of progress since he was first acquired last year, but he'll need to work on things this off-season if he wants to have a defined role with the team. That'll be up to management and coaching to help him decide what he is going forward. I have no doubt he's an NHLer, but I'm not sure how he'll fit on this team just yet. He could still be a 2nd line power forward who can pass and set up others for goals, kinda similar to what Bertuzzi brought in the 2nd half of his career. the problem is I don't know if he'll be good enough in that role to make this team a cup contender, and that's where I have reservations about retaining him long term.

Shore's sample size is simply too small with the Flames to make a determination yet. I'd like to see what he can do with a full training camp and an off-season program from the coaches.

I also think Jooris has a lot of potential still as this is his rookie season in the NHL and just his 2nd pro season. He's got a lot of skill and plays the game the right way, especially defensively. I think he could be an ideal bottom 6 RWer who can fill in at center when injuries occur. I'm hesitant to not consider him long term...he brings a lot of little things to the team on a regular basis, but he still has room to improve. Consistency is still something he needs to work on, but what young player doesn't need to do that?

flamesfever · 03-09-2015, 01:51 PM

In a cap world, effectiveness vs salary is key to a team's success, especially when the top end talent are due for a large increase in salary. IMO Byron beats everyone on the team as far a bang for the buck is concerned.

Geeoff · 03-09-2015, 01:59 PM

We have too many pieces. I hope we can trade quantity for quality. I'd keep Bouma and Jooris probably and maybe Backlund until Bennett matures.

CalgaryFan1988 · 03-09-2015, 02:04 PM

I don't think Byron is here past this season. This isn't Nintendo's "ice hockey" where big guys are slow. He can be replaced by someone who can bring more.

Like it or not, to compete in the playoffs, you need size. A team with Gaudreau, Hudler, etc... You can't afford to have another small guy, unless he is very talented.

There is just no room for Byron going forward IMO.

Geeoff · 03-09-2015, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flamesfever

In a cap world, effectiveness vs salary is key to a team's success, especially when the top end talent are due for a large increase in salary. IMO Byron beats everyone on the team as far a bang for the buck is concerned.

I guess if you don't include entry-level guys like Monahan and Gaudreau. Even then, Russell and Brodie have him beat significantly.

Parallex · 03-09-2015, 02:19 PM

Backlund and Bouma for sure.

Colborne won't... or rather shouldn't (not good enough offensively to stick around the top of the depth chart and not good enough defensively to stick around anywhere else).

The others I'm on the fence about.

dissentowner · 03-09-2015, 02:26 PM

Came to read a ridiculous post by WAYCOS on how Backlund will be gone, he sucks, etc...left disappointed.

Calgary4LIfe · 03-09-2015, 02:29 PM

The only one I would guess doesn't have a future would be Byron - and even then, who knows?

Backlund and Bouma to me are 'definitely' part of the future.

I would be a little hesitant to add Colborne in there, but he is almost there. Big, skates well, great in the corners, and seems to make really good plays.

Jooris adds tonnes of tenacity and speed to the lineup (what Byron brings), and some decent depth scoring as well.

I absolutely love Byron. I think at the moment, he may be the most underrated and under-appreciated Flame. Blazing speed, plays physical, and is very good on the defensive side of the puck. I think he has great hands as well, but somehow is horribly snakebitten. Maybe he doesn't have much of an offensive ceiling. I think if he shows a bit more touch in the offensive zone, he becomes a 'definitely keep around' on the list for the future. I do, unfortunately, think that as this team moves forward, he is likely to be pushed out by other prospects coming through the system.

GioforPM · 03-09-2015, 02:33 PM

I think Colborne's not bad defensively, and faceoffs are a pretty big part of that. As far as offence, he's almost doubled his output this year from last, and will wind up somewhere around 12-15 goals and 40 points I think.

Currently 9th on the Flames, and 5th among forwards. So ahead of Byron, Jooris, Raymond, Stajan. Only 1 point behind Bouma in 16 less games. Not bad considering his ice time. He's also tied for 3rd in +/- on the team (with Bouma).