QOTD: What is the Flame's current core?

[Bingo]

The guy that I've added is Backlund because of his recent play. He's really cemented himself as an emerging Bergeron type player and because of that he's now a core player in my mind.

Having Backlund on a team with Monahan and Bennett will make the Flames a powerhouse in a few years. He's so important to what this team has done since just before the all star break.

[FlamesAddiction]

I define the core as the current players that you would keep if you had to tear it all down and rebuild tomorrow. Players that you wouldn't gamble on replacing or improving on easily relative to their role.

[Roof-Daddy]

Monahan
Bennett
Gaudreau

Giordano
Brodie


Not CORE pieces, but would be tough to pry from Treliving IMO are:

Backlund
Bouma
Poirier
Russell
Ortio

[AC]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Core
[kawr, kohr]

noun
1. the central part of a fleshy fruit, containing the seeds.

2. the central, innermost, or most essential part of anything.

----------------

Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, Brodie, Ortio.

Why not Gio?

[Spinach]

The question was, "who do you think Treliving considers core," not "who does he think is the current core of the on-ice Flames." It's unthinkable that he wouldn't consider Bennett a core piece. I also added Poirier after waffling a bit, since it makes enough sense for Treliving to think of him as someone they have high hopes for being a first- or second-liner for a long time.

[loob job]

I wonder who didn't pick monahan. Please step forward if you didn't. One person.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by AC

Why not Gio?

Because even though he is the captain and the frontrunner to win the norris, I don't see him as a core player for Calgary in the future.

I suppose that's not what the question, "what is the Flame's current core?" because he's definitely part of the current core, but I see him almost as a separate entity I guess.

I see the Flames core as a group of young guys, 23-24 and under, playing a quick, high tenacity game. They are learning and building towards something. Giordano isn't really part of that group, and in all honesty (and I will get jumped on for this in a major way) if he wins the Norris trophy this year, I kind of hope he gets moved for the final year of his deal, only because of the return he would garner.

When the Flames are really winning, I mean really winning, he's probably not going to be one of those core guys.

Long winded, but there you go.

[AC]

Interesting, thanks for the explanation. Though I can't say I agree.

I think he's probably our most important player now, both on and off the ice. After Gelinas' comments about Gio being the best leader he's ever been around, and how much of a cultural turnaround the team has had under his captaincy, I bet the team locks him up ASAP in that 5-7 year range.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Because even though he is the captain and the frontrunner to win the norris, I don't see him as a core player for Calgary in the future.

I suppose that's not what the question, "what is the Flame's current core?" because he's definitely part of the current core, but I see him almost as a separate entity I guess.

I see the Flames core as a group of young guys, 23-24 and under, playing a quick, high tenacity game. They are learning and building towards something. Giordano isn't really part of that group, and in all honesty (and I will get jumped on for this in a major way) if he wins the Norris trophy this year, I kind of hope he gets moved for the final year of his deal, only because of the return he would garner.

When the Flames are really winning, I mean really winning, he's probably not going to be one of those core guys.

Long winded, but there you go.

You'd get magic beans and our defense would be awful. Are we starting a new rebuild in 2016?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by AC

Interesting, thanks for the explanation. Though I can't say I agree.

I think he's probably our most important player now, both on and off the ice. After Gelinas' comments about Gio being the best leader he's ever been around, and how much of a cultural turnaround the team has had under his captaincy, I bet the team locks him up ASAP in that 5-7 year range.

Agreed he's Calgary's best player, and agreed about the cultural turnaround.

Worried about locking him up for 7 years.

Just so my words/intentions aren't twisted, the motivation for moving Giordano is the hefty price a contending team would be willing to pay to add the reigning norris trophy winner on a 4 million dollar a year contract.

The reason I'd move Giordano is because the kids are alright, and the franchise would get a serious shot in the arm towards competing while Calgary's young guys are still quite young.

[Street Pharmacist]

I forgot Monahan. Idiot

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

So why are people listing half of Calgary's regular roster?

I get that bottom-6 grinders are always fan favorites, but Lance Bouma is no more a core piece in Calgary than Brian Bickell is in Chicago.

So much of our roster is so young that they haven't shown any signs they're not a keeper. Just because he's not a top 6 forward, I find it pretty damn tough to not consider a guy like Jooris a keeper, considering guys like that don't exactly grow on trees. We just spent the last decade without these right players, so you should know that. When Hartley can insert a guy like Byron into the top scoring line with expectedly positive results, that's a rare player that you don't just write off for not being a star.

Just the other night, Hartley mentioned Lance Bouma is probably the best forward on the team. That doesn't mean he's the most skilled forward or the most dominant forward or the most money scorer. It just meant that he is effective and effectiveness is what makes a core. Every team has bottom 6 players but we're lucky to have really effective ones that can slot into top lines without dragging down play.

As for Brian Bickell? He's played in Chicago since the beginning of his career and barring a surprise trade is under contract until he's 31. How many recent Flames can you name stayed with this team for remotely that long? Giordano comes to mind, and even before he was a potential Norris Candidate, just two years ago most of us would have considered him a part of the core going forward at the onset of the rebuild. I sure did.

Originally Posted by MattyC

This is my list as well, with Bouma added.

I don't necessarily think the second tier (Bouma, Backlund, Russell) are untouchable, just that they are core role players that I believe are necessary to contending/championship teams. Steady two-way players with work ethic are not as easy to find as people tend to think.

I wouldn't call Backlund a role player, he's become a very good all-around player that could be a #2 center on many championship teams. That some are projecting him to be a #3 is only a testament to how strong our depth down the middle is.

Originally Posted by Jacks

Hudler needs more love here. He's not young and shiny but he's a major part of this team. He's probably got at least 5 more years in him and I hope they are all spent wearing a Flames jersey.

I love Hudler, but it's not just that he's getting up there in age. He's also rather small. Look at Chicago's top line wingers... Hossa.. Sharp.. Saad... yes they have one small guy in Kane but the rest are each listed at 6'1. If you had to pick one small guy in the Top 6, do you pick Hudler or do you pick Gaudreau?

...That becomes extra complicated because I honestly think Sven Baertschi is going to be an NHLer that can provide big numbers, and while he's gotten stocky, he's still not the biggest guy either. You can maybe get away with two small wingers on separate lines, as long as the opposite wing is the right level of player... a Poirier perhaps.

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

For example, I think it would be fair to say that for the past several seasons, Sharp was part of Chicago's core.

Even though he was a UFA pickup for them, I'd put Hossa in that category too. We are talking about a 30 goal, consistent Selke candidate here. And Seabrook. Who knows who their management considers "core" though? Do we really watch the Blackhawks often enough to judge?

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Because even though he is the captain and the frontrunner to win the norris, I don't see him as a core player for Calgary in the future.

How many Norris guys didn't play well into their 30s? MacInnis til he was 39, Bourque til he was 39, Coffey til he was 38, Niedermeyer til he was 36, and of course Lidstrom could probably still play today. Chara's still a core piece for Boston, although his career is pretty much over due to knee problems. If Pronger didn't have concussion problems, I bet he's a Flyer right now.

...I really don't see Gio leaving the team any time soon, considering that this is essentially "his" team. Not unless serious injuries hit, and you can't predict those. I imagine he plays for us (and well) for the next 7-8 years, which is a pretty long time. He might switch over to #2 Dman with Brodie taking the #1 mantle, but he'll still be a core player for Calgary in the future. This team will allow him to be replaced organically rather than just rebuilding again after trading him.. a la Detroit.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

Who is Chicago's core?
Kane, Toews, and Keith.

Edmonton?
Hall, Eberle, and RNH.

Who is LA's core?
Kopitar, Dougty, and Carter (and formerly Rchards).

So why are people listing half of Calgary's regular roster?

I get that bottom-6 grinders are always fan favorites, but Lance Bouma is no more a core piece in Calgary than Brian Bickell is in Chicago.

You're correct... I got excited and voted for too many players!

[AC]

Originally Posted by saillias

You'd get magic beans and our defense would be awful. Are we starting a new rebuild in 2016?

That would be my biggest concern with moving Gio while his value is really high.

If Gio isn't in the core, then only Brodie is on defence and we probably don't have any prospects that will become a top 2 defenceman.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Agreed he's Calgary's best player, and agreed about the cultural turnaround.

Worried about locking him up for 7 years.

Just so my words/intentions aren't twisted, the motivation for moving Giordano is the hefty price a contending team would be willing to pay to add the reigning norris trophy winner on a 4 million dollar a year contract.

The reason I'd move Giordano is because the kids are alright, and the franchise would get a serious shot in the arm towards competing while Calgary's young guys are still quite young.

Gio is just getting into his prime years and the Flames now and in the next few years would not even be close to the same team without Gio. The suggestion of moving Gio at this juncture is loony tunes.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Much of the same could have been said about Cammalleri last year. Cammalleri wasn't part of the core though.

It's not about the best players on the team currently. Not in my definition at least.

Due to his 6.5 m price tag, age and being a pending FA everyone knew he would be not be returning.
Hudler is 2.5m less and far more muti dimensional and he doesn't have to be fed the puck for one timers to be effective like Cammy did.

[Journey17]

I get Flash Walken's points on moving Giordano while the price is highest would really have the potential to set the team up to be an actual contender (not just make the playoffs). The challenge would be whether you risk being a constant rebuilder as don't have enough veterans to teach the kids how to win.

I have Gio as part of the core plus Brodie as a number 1 pairing that keeps us competitive even when the offense dries up for streaks.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Haven't read the rest of this thread, but here goes:

Firstly, when you're rebuilding, your core should consist mostly of players on the right side of 30. If they're 30 or older, you really need to consider them essential pieces to future success, otherwise they should be considered expendable. For those reasons alone, Giordano and Hudler are still "core" pieces.

Veteran core: Giordano, Hudler.

To me, it starts in net and you build from there up the middle of the ice. You need blue chip goalie prospects, and lots of depth in that position, which the Flames currently have. Yes Hiller is our stater right now, but there's a reason he was only given a 2 year deal and not a 5 or 6 year deal. He's an average to better-than-average placeholder until one of Gillies or Ortio claim that spot. So for those reasons, Gillies and Ortio are my core goaltending pieces.

Goalies: Ortio, Gillies.

Then look at how your defense is constructed. We have some nice mobile players who are good pieces to build around, but we definitely need 1 or 2 more big, physical, shutdown players. For my money, Giordano, Brodie, and even Russell are core pieces to build around, even if Russell only ends up being a 3rd pairing guy on a contending team.

Defense: Giordano, Brodie, Russell.

Center ice is even more important than it was a few years ago, and to win these days you need dominant centermen. I believe we have those pieces in place right now with Bennett, Monahan, and Backlund, each playing a different role. Bennett is your top line high-skilled center. Monahan is your 2-way center that can play defense and offense equally well, but not superstar level at either. Backlund is your modern-day shutdown center, who uses speed, hockey IQ, tenacity, and some skill to shutdown the oppositions best line and add some offense every few games...also an energy line to turn the tide. For those reasons, these 3 are part of the core for a long time.

Centers: Bennett, Monahan, Backlund.

Wingers: Much more interchangeable and found on the open market, except for top end skilled scoring wingers. Those are difficult to get and should be retained at all costs, so long as they are able to contribute defensively. Hudler and Gaudreau fit the bill, even though Hudler is older. Poirier is a good young player, but I wouldn't be shocked if he were part of a package to get a bonafide NHL top flight scorer. Also, players with intangibles, leadership, and some offense should be retained, especially if they are game changers. Lance Bouma is turning into a game changer, so he should be retained for a long time.

Wingers: Hudler, Gaudreau, Bouma.

[terminator]

How is a player that has not played a game ever a core player?

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

Originally Posted by terminator

How is a player that has not played a game ever a core player?

In the case of Bennett, draft position, plus how he showed during training camp.

I would never call any prospect goalie part of the core