Any engineers here?

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by kermitology

We use developer and I’m Sr. Manager, Engineering. But, engineer is a title, and jobs shouldn’t be posted as engineer unless you’re specifically filling it with a P.Eng. I’ve complained to my own company in the past for using engineer for non-engineers.

I let my P.Eng lapse when I moved to BC. I’d been non practicing for years. Didn’t want to bother. I no longer refer to myself as an engineer, despite having an electrical engineering degree and previously had the title.

I keep thinking about just letting mine go. Through random events, I ended up responsible member at work. I don’t even know the events that triggered us getting a permit to practice, as we have 2 whole engineers working and we’re both in EE, and never sign off on anything. I am dreading this permit to practice management plan. It sounds like a PITA. I think with that they’re trying to create something that is going to become a big headache - if you hire engineers to do software, and they want to maintain their P.Eng, it is going to be ugly and potentially costly for the company to deal with when it comes to professional development and stuff.

But, if the company is hiring non-engineers for the roles, then just go with the developer title. Does it even make a difference?

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by d00little

I know APEGA and perhaps other Canadian engineering associations were trying to fight it in the past, but I think the tech boom has gotten so big it's pretty much made the fight futile. Don't thing APEGA can fight the likes of Google, Microsoft, Facebook and Apple that all hire their developers as software engineers.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to argue to protect the title, I just don’t get the problem that the tech companies like the one writing to Danielle Smith that they’re going to leave Alberta over this, are having using different job descriptions or job titles. Seems like an odd hill to die on to me.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

would love to know what engineers find fulfilling about their line work . my dad worked as one but only once in a blue moon did it appear that he enjoyed the work . sure he took pride in it because the company did well .. but in the day to day grind it was just constant stress and frustration from what I saw

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

would love to know what engineers find fulfilling about their line work . my dad worked as one but only once in a blue moon did it appear that he enjoyed the work . sure he took pride in it because the company did well .. but in the day to day grind it was just constant stress and frustration from what I saw

Depends on your line of work. I see a lot of grads who just went to the fast money with mining, o&g, or utility companies and that seemed really mind-numbing to me. I stuck out in tech even after dot com bubble burst nearly decimated everything.

Now, there are things I don’t find great about my job, but I enjoy most aspects of it. Always new challenges, hands-on, getting to build things.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

hands on, challenges and building things does sound like it lines up with what most engineers would enjoy . though like you said i think many end up in positions that are not fulfilling in those ways , perhaps in a position where they are more of the middle man than one of those getting to enjoy the hands on aspect

[photon]

My degree is in electrical engineering and I've been a developer most of my professional career (more recently in DevOps and automation) and I've never used the term engineer to refer to myself.

I remember when I graduated like 30 or whatever years ago they were very adamant about us getting in lots of trouble from APEGA if we used the term engineer.

Having tried to hire senior people recently, some calling themselves devops or similar engineers, the term certainly doesn't seem to have the weight it used to.

[FireGilbert]

UofC Engineering class of 2006 here. Don't stress too much about where you end up. I picked 1. Chemical, 2. Mechanical, and 3. Electrical based on what I thought would open up the best job prospects in Calgary and ended up in Electrical because I had a 2.1 GPA and the top 2 were very popular at the time. Had no idea what I was doing but in hindsight it all worked out and I've had a 15+ year successful electrical engineering career including gaining professional certifications on both sides of the Pacific.

[Fuzz]

Any time Apega is involved in a dispute, I instinctively have to support the other side.

But I've also never understood tech users being called "engineers" for ever role they take on. It's not really the same thing as a traditional engineer. But maybe it should be, given the safety aspects needed for self driving cars, and how much critical infrastructure tech now backs. Maybe if they had more skin in the game they'd stop making such sloppy mistakes.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

would love to know what engineers find fulfilling about their line work . my dad worked as one but only once in a blue moon did it appear that he enjoyed the work . sure he took pride in it because the company did well .. but in the day to day grind it was just constant stress and frustration from what I saw

It’s the making something work part of it that gives satisfaction for me. Something is not working you have a bunch of data and a bunch of different people With opinions on what went wrong and you methodically prove why it occurred and fix it.

If you can keep half the job that and the other half management documentation and paperwork it’s enjoyable. I think too many engineers get dragged into project management and aren’t necessarily suited for it.

[Geraldsh]

My grandson has enrolled in the army where he will be trained to be a “combat engineer “. I believe it addresses the technical aspects of modern warfare: missile guidance, drone control, mines, etc..

[KTrain]

They only people who care are those with actual engineering degrees. No one else does.

Can we stop chiropractors from using the word Dr before their names though?

[JD]

Originally Posted by Wormius

I am dreading this permit to practice management plan. It sounds like a PITA.

Can confirm.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Any time Apega is involved in a dispute, I instinctively have to support the other side.

My favourite thing about APEGA is that I have to pay them to sell my information to insurance companies.

[Matata]

The term 'engineer' has been bastardized so badly for non-engineering job titles that it's not really worth getting upset about anymore, people in those positions are still legally prevented from putting the almighty "P.Eng" next to their name.

It's a bit different with software engineers because it's all new and the delineation between engineering and non-engineering work isn't that clear. My cousin got a degree in software development and he very easily could have gone the software engineer route, but he liked his program and now he works as software engineer. I honestly have no idea how traditional engineering practices even apply to software engineering, at what point does code need a stamp?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Matata

The term 'engineer' has been bastardized so badly for non-engineering job titles that it's not really worth getting upset about anymore, people in those positions are still legally prevented from putting the almighty "P.Eng" next to their name.

It's a bit different with software engineers because it's all new and the delineation between engineering and non-engineering work isn't that clear. My cousin got a degree in software development and he very easily could have gone the software engineer route, but he liked his program and now he works as software engineer. I honestly have no idea how traditional engineering practices even apply to software engineering, at what point does code need a stamp?

When it has the capacity to kill someone. I would think that coding should have a person with a moral and legal responsibility to the public to show that due diligence was followed in the creation and verification of the code. Something like the Max 8 should ultimately have an individual that says this meets the obligation to protect the public.

The word engineering is regulated in Alberta. Until such time that the provincial government changes it it should be enforced.

Now does APEGA need to be more flexible around the recognition of what constitutes sufficient education and experience to become an engineer when it comes to software? Absolutely, but the principle that engineered goods should have been created by competent people who have obligations to someone other than their company is a good practice.

The alternatives of let companies do as they please and allow liability to govern decisions or government regulation of the trade are both less desirable.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by KTrain

They only people who care are those with actual engineering degrees. No one else does.

Can we stop chiropractors from using the word Dr before their names though?

It’s funny you bring this one up because that is precisely why APEGA is militant on the use of title. It’s unfortunate that the title Dr doesn’t differentiate between medical doctor and person with a doctorate.

[Tacopuck]

Anyone who argues that non-engineers should be allowed to used engineer in their title should also be okay with naturopaths, chiropractors, acupuncturists, herbalists, or any other career that is even remotely tangentially aligned with health to be called medical doctors.

While we are at it paralegals should be allowed to use the title lawyer, crack dealers should be allowed to advertise as pharmacists, and multilevel marketing participants should call themselves accountants.

This isnt hard to understand.

[wireframe]

I'm an engineer who now works as a "machine learning engineer" at a big US tech company. I only want to add that my company doesn't care at all if I have a P.Eng. I told my manager that I'm only going to maintain my professional designation if they pay the dues and they didn't have any formal policy about association dues. My manager paid it out of team budget but it was interesting that it had never occurred to the company.



For legal reasons, I think the "engineer" title is most important for companies that have a professional practice license. My company doesn't have or want one. I used to work for Stantec in the same capacity and they cared very much that I was a P.Eng because it helps their ratio of professional employees. Stantec needs to keep a professional practice license for all the engineering design work they do.

[Zarley]

What a load of bureaucratic protectionist nonsense from APEGA. Are they going to go after train engineers next? What about chief engineers at manufacturing plants? Power engineers?

Now we need the Architect's Association to go after software architects!

[edslunch]

I’m an engineer who for years worked as and used the title ‘Software Architect’. I’m assuming there’s an equivalent Architect association I would be at odds with.