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Old 12-10-2014, 03:25 PM   #41
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Most of the time the Flames can skate around their opposition, but man, every few games it becomes REALLY apparently that it's a bunch of shrimps out there, and that they would be eaten alive in a 7-game series. There is no way this team has any hope against a team like Anaheim.
Absolutely. Last night was a glimpse into a how teams would play us in the playoffs. It wasn't pretty. And it's not as though the Leafs are a particularly tough team.
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Old 12-10-2014, 03:43 PM   #42
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Is there a way in which McGrattan can retire as a player mid-season and then take a job with the Flames in a non-player role but still involved with the team? (Strength coach, coach advisor etc) Is something like that allowed?
Why would he want to retire? Definitely not because someone on the internet things he should run down from the pressbox and take put Dion because of a slash you sell 20 times in a games

Grats being a scratch has zero to do about sheltering out youth or even his role not needed. Hartley is the one making the calls and right now he doesn't give a rats butt about the young guys future or protecting.. it's all about $$ and his future. I'm not saying that negativity, he has to look out for himself because right now the Flames have dropped the ball
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Old 12-10-2014, 04:02 PM   #43
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I was embarrassed when Phaneuf was roughing up the forwards with no response whatsoever.

But, it shouldn't have be to be an enforcer that steps in. These are grown men out there.
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Old 12-10-2014, 04:09 PM   #44
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You need skilled tough guys in todays NHL.

No one is scared anymore of a guy like McGrattan on the bench because as most will just skate around him and not engage.

Just like what the great stortini would have done. Just skate around and not engage these tough guys.
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Old 12-10-2014, 04:17 PM   #45
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Absolutely. Last night was a glimpse into a how teams would play us in the playoffs. It wasn't pretty. And it's not as though the Leafs are a particularly tough team.
And if we played a playoff series against Toronto where each game went like that, we would win in five or six games. Bernier can't hold them in it forever.
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Old 12-10-2014, 05:10 PM   #46
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Why would he want to retire? Definitely not because someone on the internet things he should run down from the pressbox and take put Dion because of a slash you sell 20 times in a games

Grats being a scratch has zero to do about sheltering out youth or even his role not needed. Hartley is the one making the calls and right now he doesn't give a rats butt about the young guys future or protecting.. it's all about $$ and his future. I'm not saying that negativity, he has to look out for himself because right now the Flames have dropped the ball
What the Frik? Everything ok HS? lol
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Old 12-10-2014, 05:50 PM   #47
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The one thing about Engelland is that he can also play the wing, and he would be less of a defensive liability at that position. I’d like to see the team find a decent third-pairing defenceman somewhere, move him into Engelland’s spot, put Engelland on the fourth line, and write off Bollig as a failed experiment.

I believe McGrattan’s NHL days are over. It’s not even about the enforcer’s role disappearing; quite simply, he was just barely an NHL-calibre player in his prime, and he passed his prime a couple of years back. But it will do no harm to let him wind up his career in his own way and in his own time.
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Old 12-10-2014, 06:06 PM   #48
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What is 'the job'? What job is Bollig getting paid to do? How about Engelland? What about McGrattan?

I look at these guys as requiring a few different aspects to their job.

1) Play hockey. Well, obvious one here. Whether or not they are expected to play 2 minutes or 20 minutes a night, they have to do what Bob Hartley has given them the ice time to do. If that means just 'provide energy', then that is what they are doing.

2) Enforcing. I think we all know what this is (and I think this is what this thread is mainly revolved around).

3) Leadership. Everyone talks about the culture of the team, and what that means to the success of this franchise moving forward. I think leadership is a very important on any team.

In regards to leadership, most of the credit is given to Hartley, with the rest being given to Giordano's leadership this (and last) year. However, if you listen to a lot of the interviews and hear what people say about Engelland, Bollig and McGrattan, they are also providing that in spades. We all know about McGrattan. Engelland is apparently a huge leadership guy on this team now. Hartley and some of the other guys have mentioned this from the start of camp actually. Bollig also seems to be one of those consummate team mates, though I haven't heard as much around him other than "he wants to play for the Hawks again one year".

So, have they been doing their 'jobs'? One might question that from all of them being scratched regularly. However, we don't know why they are scratched sometimes, why they play sometimes, and what effect they really have on the team. Until we know what Hartley's 'orders' are for their play, I don't think we can really say they aren't doing their jobs because they aren't fighting. I think it is fair to critique the areas that we do see - their mishaps on the ice, or the overall quality of their 'hockey' play.

I know last season Hartley was quoted as holding McGrattan back quite often. Maybe he is doing the same this year with the rest of them. As another poster pointed out, their PK is not very good at the moment so those instigator penalties are going to hurt. Flames are making a push for the playoffs and they simply can't afford to be sending many messages right now, at least not with a below average PK.

I do think that the Flames want to move away from having tough guys that don't contribute much to the play, however. Look at who they have been drafting lately. Kanzig was drafted not as a heavyweight fighter, but as a defencemen. Smith was drafted with being able to provide the scoring punch - literally scoring and punching. These are two players that have been seeing the opposition's best players on a nightly basis in junior. They also signed guys like Van Brabant, drafted Carrol, traded for gritty guys like Hanowski and Agostino, and absolutely hope for the best in Ferland.

Both Bollig and Engelland were acquired with the intentions that they would be 'everyday players' who can contribute and might even exceed their past plays with increased roles and responsibilities. I don't think that has happened much (I think Bollig has actually played less in Calgary than in Chicago, though I might have to double-check that). Engelland has seen periods of very good play with periods of terrible positioning and defending. Kind of a mixed bag with him so far.

If you are basing a guy like Engelland doing his job or not purely on fights and sticking up for guys, well he has 4 fights (Oct 11 vs Barrett Jackman, Nov 4 vs Liam O'Brien, Nov 13 vs BJ Crombeen, and Nov 18 vs Tim Jackman). That is roughly about on track for around 12 fights or so for the year. I think he was brought in for toughness in front of the net and make sure the crease is respected. I do think he has done that job, but I do think he has made some screw-ups as well. With Hartley having a PMD in Diaz who he likes to play against certain teams, I am not 100% sure that Engelland is getting healthy scratched due to not doing his job or simply as a byproduct of having Diaz around.

Bollig has only fought once (Nov 15th vs Mark Borowiecki). However, last year he only fought 6x with Chicago. I think he was brought in to add toughness along the boards, in front of the opposition net, etc. I also think they expected him to contribute a bit more with possession and perhaps even being a contributing depth scorer (from what I gathered from the interview with Treliving anyways after the trade). I think if that was the case, he wouldn't have been a healthy scratch at all.

McGrattan. Well, we know what his job is. As much as people say "He should stop living by the code", I hope he doesn't. Yes, the code may interfere with his policing at times, but I don't want Calgary to be known as a 'dirty team' that sends out its' goon to throttle the smaller skilled players. I thought what John Scott did was somewhat warranted last year against Kessel and the rest of the Leafs, but look at how that was perceived in hindsight. I just don't think you can ever have an enforcer going out and beating down players any longer. They will simply be tossed out of the league.

A good example of that is our very own Trevor Gillies. Yes, the guy probably has an anger issue judging by that 'fight' he got suspended for at the beginning of the season (and I think it is an UGLY incident). So what do we take away from that? To me, it wasn't just him bouncing the poor kid's head off the ice - I thought that action was just over the top stupid and dangerous. However, just pulling that kid and start feeding him punches? Do you guys really want to see McGrattan pull a guy half his size and start beating him up?

Gillies when he was on the Islanders took a heck of a lot of heat for that Pittsburgh fight. Yep, he absolutely was incredibly 'cheap and dirty', but that was the supposed statement that the Islanders were making that they were no longer going to put up with Pittsburgh's rough play and the lack of calls going their way. I think I understood that game very well and totally see the 'statement' being made on the ice, but that was a heck of a lot of 'ugly' and could have been even uglier than it was. I would absolutely HATE to not only see McGrattan be involved in something like that, but the Flames as well.

The fabled Flames gave vs Anaheim - for the most part, that was fine. I thought it was dirty what Berube did initially, but all the fighting afterward was ok as the opposing coach thought he was pretty smart and tried to catch the Flames with their skilled players on the ice. The Nashville incident? That was fine too I thought. It changed a rule in hockey, but I didn't find it to be 'ugly'. Vancouver? I didn't think it was ugly, and I still bet that absolutely nothing would have happened had Vancouver sent the Sedins out to start the game. I would absolutely hate it if the Flames start being one of these teams that employ toughness as a way to try and injure other players in sending that 'message'.

I think next off-season will be very telling as to what happens with the enforcer role. I do think it is coming to an end, and though McGrattan is a decent skating and decently skilled enforcer, he is not a good 'hockey player' per se. I wouldn't mind if the Flames re-up him for another year to do exactly what he is doing at the moment, as I feel that a 13th forward spot is kind of a waste of development space anyways. This past off-season, many enforcers found themselves without work in the NHL. I am wondering if the trend continues in that direction, or if during the season more 'stuff' happens (like the Lucic running Miller incident in Buffalo) and it makes teams want to add that role again on their teams. I do think the trend will continue in the same direction it did in the off-season, and if so, I don't think the Flames re-sign McGrattan. I just haven't seen Bollig being any more effective in any other area of the ice, however - not in his hockey plays, or his fighting.

Lastly, I thought I would leave this here. It is an interview with McGrattan 5 days ago. I haven't seen it posted anywhere here yet, but apologies if it has been. He speaks about many things in this interview - including his substance abuse issues and how he has overcome them. Also, around the 7minute mark (and where this interview fits in exactly with this thread) it talks about his role on the team and how he goes about doing it the best he can. Also shares insight into Monahan and the rest of the team. Quite a good interview and a look at some stuff that we as fans are not really privy to. I would honestly rather buyout Bollig if needed, and re-sign McGrattan.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/960/the-big-...e-inspiration/
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Old 12-10-2014, 06:16 PM   #49
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I'm definitely okay with McGrattan staying in the 14th forward spot past this year - he isn't taking a spot away from a young player and he won't be playing too many games. I really like the guy and think he is a good role model in the dressing room.

I do agree he probably won't be re-signed though.
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Old 12-10-2014, 08:35 PM   #50
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What the Frik? Everything ok HS? lol


lol Ya tell me about it, vision issues. With all the editing and auto edit inserting a different word. I'm amazed you guys pick up even half the garbage I write

You make do, I gave up worrying about it a long time ago but sometimes you just hit enter and smile
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Old 12-10-2014, 09:05 PM   #51
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Treliving brought in engellend and bollig to add size and toughness, but I wonder what he thinks about it now. This season just hasn't panned out like others. Every second game the flames play feels like the playoffs heading into overtime.

Normally during the course of a season you'll get blown out, or start piling on a team and that's when liberties are taken most of the time. We simply haven't needed that this year. A huge credit to this team.
I also believe he had an underlying obligation to appease Burke with size and toughness in spite of being hailed as the new gm. His next move should show his true colours. Will be interesting to see. I know Hartley loves speed, pressure and a bit of grit.
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Old 12-10-2014, 09:42 PM   #52
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As much as I would like an upgrade on engelland , it's not really his fault. As someone who had seen him play a bunch he is doing no worse than he did in the past or would be with any other team. It was not a good signing, he is not that good.

Bollig I would say is not doing his job. He looked far better on the 4th line with Chicago. Hopefully he gets better. Granted I don't hate the trade. A 3rd round pick for him is nothing and his contract $'s is pretty low.

The days of a true enforcer are ending. That's not really McGrat's fault.
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Old 12-10-2014, 11:25 PM   #53
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As much as I would like an upgrade on engelland , it's not really his fault. As someone who had seen him play a bunch he is doing no worse than he did in the past or would be with any other team. It was not a good signing, he is not that good.

Bollig I would say is not doing his job. He looked far better on the 4th line with Chicago. Hopefully he gets better. Granted I don't hate the trade. A 3rd round pick for him is nothing and his contract $'s is pretty low.

The days of a true enforcer are ending. That's not really McGrat's fault.
No one would say it's Engelland's fault. It's irrelevant though, as I'd just rather see someone else there. Him and Smid get eaten alive out there.

They dump, defend, dump, defend, dump, defend, you get the point.
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