What Does Baertschi Have To Do...?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

This thread is so lame. Team is on a fantastic run to start the season and you have fans that are upset that their favorite players aren't getting the Oilers red carpet treatment. If you want to watch a team where prospects don't have to earn their ice time with their play become an Oilers fan for crying out loud. Why can't fans just be happy that the team is doing much better than expected?

Exactly.

The answer to the main question is that he simply has to earn it. There are different ways to develop players. Some you give top line ice time to in the minors and hope that they can transition to the NHL that way, and others you start on the bottom lines in the NHL and see if they can work their way up. The first method didn't seem to be working well with Baertschi, so they are going with option 2.

But he really needs to not just play well, but he needs to displace other players ahead of him. It is as simple as that.

[Fire It Up]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Exactly.

The answer to the main question is that he simply has to earn it. There are different ways to develop players. Some you give top line ice time to in the minors and hope that they can transition to the NHL that way, and others you start on the bottom lines in the NHL and see if they can work their way up. The first method didn't seem to be working well with Baertschi, so they are going with option 2.

But he really needs to not just play well, but he needs to displace other players ahead of him. It is as simple as that.

I don't think it's lame to ask questions on what can make the team better. Coaches do it all the time and it's part of pushing to be a champion and to be excellent. I have no problems with how this team is performing but merely ask what he needs to do to get more ice time and hopefully help this team continue to win...

[Poe969]

maybe they're winning more because he's playing less..... If it ain't broke, don't fix it

[Lanny_McDonald]

I've been saying this for a while now,but Baertschi is no longer a good fit for this team. He doesn't play Flames hockey, no matter how hard he tries. The best thing for Baertschi and the Flames would be a trade. If the Flames can grab a young defender for Baertschi and give him a chance at a fresh start it is probably the best thing for all parties. As it is, Baertschi has fallen behind so many in the organization his hopes of getting a crack at the top nine is reliant on someone having a catastrophic injury and having the long term audition handed to him.

[tvp2003]

WWJD?

(You know, what would Jooris do?)

[JJ1532]

I find myself taking a different view to most on here over this issue. Obviously he started this stint with the Flames terribly, barely making any worthwhile contributions. But then he got together with Byron and Jooris on the 3rd line and produced 3 points in 2 games. But he made a bad error against Anaheim and his ice time was again cut right down. He was then demoted to the 4th line once again. I've noticed him a few times over the last 3-4 games where he's put in a solid shift. Nothing amazing, but solid enough.

But I really do think its massively harsh to criticise him for now playing well when he's only getting 6-7 minutes of ice time with 2 shut down guys alongside him. Tbh, he is where he should be at the moment. He doesn't deserve to take ice time off other players currently, but at the same time, people shouldn't criticise him for not showing more. Hard for any skilled winger to produce alongside 2 grinders.

I would agree that Sven is no longer a fit with the team. I think before we even consider trading the likes Glencross(not that its an imminent thing mind), we really should test the market for Sven. Because if he goes down, he'll likely have to settle for a bit part role with Addy. He is good enough to deserve a decent shot elsewhere.

[Yoho]

I think he's going to be just like Backlund and take a bit, we'll be glad to have him once Glencross is gone.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I think he is playing reasonably well, but there are times when he and his line have been pinned pretty bad in the d zone. I really don't worry about the injured players coming back, because, frankly, I think they are currently better players than Baertschi, Knight, Ferland, Bollig, and we'll have even better balance on 4 lines once we are healthy and the younger players are returned to the A.
Not a bad thing for Sven. I do think he will light it up in Addy.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by New Era

I've been saying this for a while now,but Baertschi is no longer a good fit for this team. He doesn't play Flames hockey, no matter how hard he tries. The best thing for Baertschi and the Flames would be a trade. If the Flames can grab a young defender for Baertschi and give him a chance at a fresh start it is probably the best thing for all parties. As it is, Baertschi has fallen behind so many in the organization his hopes of getting a crack at the top nine is reliant on someone having a catastrophic injury and having the long term audition handed to him.

Still too early to say that. He's in learning phase, and its a good situaton for him to be learning in a phase where the team is winning and developing good habits. The Flames have been a good hockey team for 2 months. Being reactionary and saying suddenly we have no need for a highly touted offensive prospect makes no sense. Let him learn, the Flames are in no need to rush him right now, its a luxury to be able to develop players without desperation to yield immediate results. Just ask Edmonton.

[SuperMatt18]

He has to outplay some combination of: Jones, Glencross, Hudler, Gaudreau, Jooris, Raymond, Byron, Granlund, Colborne.

He has looked good, and with better luck would be putting up more points but it is not like he has clearly outplayed any of the other forwards.

Good problem for this team to have right now since we are about 18 forwards deep that can actually play in the NHL.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by Yoho

I think he's going to be just like Backlund and take a bit, we'll be glad to have him once Glencross is gone.

seconded....feel the same.

[wingmaker]

I take exception to the classification of Baertschi's linemates being "grinders" who are somehow beneath him. Bollig—yes, I will give you that. But Bouma is a fantastic hockey player who can produce points, pushes the pace, creates space with his speed and size, can shoot the puck well, etc. If Baertschi can't create offence with a player like Bouma, supported by the highest scoring defence in the entire league, what the hell can he do? Bouma has spent time on the top line, as well as with other scoring forwards who seem to have had some success. Furthermore, look at Jooris' first goal from last night...he started the play in his own end, passed it to Russel, used his speed to get to the open side to receive a perfect pass...was not dependant on the other members of his forward line at all. This whole idea that Baertschi can only play with the best players on the team is ridiculous. Baertchi is in control of his own fate. I'm so tired of fans blaming coaches, line mates, Burke, Feaster, and everything else under the sun for why this guy isn't better than he is. He wasn't a force in Adirondack on the top lines, he is a marginal player at the NHL level...maybe he will slowly improve and find his place, or maybe not. But it really is up to him at this point. This is a team laden with young players. If he can't find a role as a regular at this point, it is only going to get more difficult with Bennett, Poirier, Klimchuk, Hanowski, Arnold, etc all vying for spots over the next couple of seasons.

[442scotty]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

He's playing ok, but it just looks like he can't maintain the same level of intensity that Hartley has these guys playing at.

This team plays a style that is perfect for Sven. Once the injured guys get back even the fourth line should be deadly with skill guys. Hes a lot better than he is showing. He just doesn't seem to believe it yet but its coming along.

[Azure]

I think he's playing fine. His progression is just a little slower which is perfectly fine.

Put in your time on the 4th line, and learn, learn, learn. Keep your head up and play smart hockey. Detroit has been doing this for years and it has turned out very well.

[Two Fivenagame]

To my eyes Sven has improved.

He's looked dangerous on a few occasions and from what i've seen, he looks like he's having fun on the bench.

He's on a young, fast, hard working team right now that is having plenty of success in the NHL. Hard not to like that environment for a player. He'll come along.

[northcrunk]

Sven will be ok but there just isnt room yet. Once Glencross leaves the team he will be a regular.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Still too early to say that. He's in learning phase, and its a good situaton for him to be learning in a phase where the team is winning and developing good habits. The Flames have been a good hockey team for 2 months. Being reactionary and saying suddenly we have no need for a highly touted offensive prospect makes no sense. Let him learn, the Flames are in no need to rush him right now, its a luxury to be able to develop players without desperation to yield immediate results. Just ask Edmonton.

There is part of the problem. Baertschi is no longer a highly touted offensive prospect. Players of that ilk rip the AHL up. Baertschi struggles to be an impact player at that level. He's not an offensive prospect anymore. He's going to have to find a niche for himself if he hopes to have a NHL career, and that likely isn't in Calgary. He will no longer be waiver exempt next season, so he'll get the Colborne treatment. The Flames will have to keep him up or risk losing him for nothing when they waive him. Are you prepared to take that risk, or send down a player who is likely more deserving of the spot? Who would you send down to keep Baertschi? I would hope the Flames recognize this conundrum and make a move to get something for him while they can, hopefully at a position where we need some depth. Baertschi has just run out of time to meet the expectations he set for himself and management. There are just too many good young players coming up that are better options. Time to move on and let someone else assume the risk.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think Sven is absolutely an offensive prospect - I think he has shown that he can even be a catalyst.

It is just that Sven doesn't play with enough pace in his game. Everyone above him at the moment plays with much more consistent effort in every zone. This is the 'style' of play for the Flames, and Sven doesn't fit that. Flames are also a very underrated team in terms of offensive creativity - and Sven slots into that aspect for the Flames quite nicely. I don't think that management or even Hartley has any questions about his ability to produce at this league, but they are just making sure that Sven also doesn't develop into what we have seen up North with their skilled players.

There is nobody ahead of him in the lineup that deserves having minutes cut in favor of Sven. Perhaps Granlund currently as he hasn't been doing that well in his last stretch of games, but even then I would say Granlund has been generally more effective with the minutes given to him. Ferland gives the Flames much needed size and toughness.

Sven really needs to start looking at his comparables like Gaudreau and Hudler. Do they make mistakes? Of course they do! However, they play with so much more urgency at all times. Gaudreau is an absolute hound on that puck when he loses it and puts so much pressure on the puck carrier or at least finds the trailer to cover or gets into a defensive position. Sven is just a bit slower at this still. He doesn't play with that urgency often enough and still makes too many mistakes.

Has he improved? I would say yes even if Sven had zero points in this call-up thus far. He just needs to play with more pace to his game all the time. I still think he can become a very productive player for the Flames and should not only play in the top 6, but be a catalyst for his line. Once he develops that aspect to his game, I think he will take off.

With that being said, the NHL is not a development league - especially when it means demoting players who have been doing very well to the 4th line or scratching them/sending them to the AHL. That is not the message you send to this team. Sven will have to just do better, regardless of line mates or however many minutes Hartley decides to give him. Hartley has shown in the past a willingness to reward good play - even when it comes to Sven. It is 50% up to Sven, and 50% up to the rest of the players he is battling with for that time. It has absolutely nothing to do with pedigree any longer, or if Hartley is being unfair or not to him, or if management is being unfair. This is all on Sven in terms of Sven's game, and the rest is on his competition. I think it is as simple as that.

The Flames are playing very well right now, and I really don't understand why this is even a point of contention. Sven just hasn't outplayed anyone consistently enough to be rewarded with more minutes and more opportunities. Once he does, Hartley will move him up. I do think Baertschi will be demoted to the AHL shortly, however, and that is not a bad thing for him as he can probably use the minutes he is more than likely to have down there that he isn't getting up here.

[Street Pharmacist]

With what Pouliot and Rattie are currently doing, are we ready to admit maybe it wasn't Sven driving the offence in Portland?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

With what Pouliot and Rattie are currently doing, are we ready to admit maybe it wasn't Sven driving the offence in Portland?

Did you watch Portland much?

Baertschi was dominant, and was the catalyst of their offense. Where they are all at right now doesn't change that one bit.