Sven

[dustygoon]

How much of it is Huska?

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Dion

Sven becomes an RFA at the end of this season and has to show something to earn another contract from the Flames. My fear is he will become another first round bust like Leland Irving.

He would have to start scoring on his own net before the Flames would let him walk without offering a contract.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Dion

Sven becomes an RFA at the end of this season and has to show something to earn another contract from the Flames. My fear is he will become another first round bust like Leland Irving.

If the Flames offer the likes of Greg Nemisz multiple contracts but not Baertschi, then there is an issue.

29 teams would be offering Sven a contract if the Flames don't qualify him.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Being a minus player by no means indicates that he has played poor defensively.

From the games I've watched, it's been far the opposite. He nor his linemates are scoring and they are getting little to no puck luck. Even with 3 more ES goals for, his +/- returns to near the team average (he's also been on the ice for a couple of EN goals against). I think he's been very unlucky not to have at least a few more points.

With that said, he is focusing too much on positioning in his own zone and it's costing him a lot of what made him special in the first place.

The common rhetoric needs to stop. He's just fine defensively. He's consistently the first player in on the backcheck, he isn't making dumb defensive plays or turning the puck over. He's been conservative.

"common rhetoric" vs. "fanboy bias"

maybe the truth lies somewhere in the middle...he has been average at best down there and needs to be better

[dying4acup]

I will let things play out.

Short of NJ offering Larsen straight up.

[djsFlames]

Is his performance a sign that he's holding out until he's dealt somewhere?

Hope not. He's got lots of fans here. People want to see him succeed, I just hope he can get past this negative perception he has about how he's been handled. If there's any prospect that should be frustrated over 'not being given a chance' it's Reinhart. He's been NHL ready maybe for a season now, and still can't buy a spot or a good look with the big team. Sven is capable of much more and I hope he plans on showing it while he's still a part of this organization..

[flylock shox]

I think the Flames should loan him to the Oilers for a couple of months so he can get defence out of his head, and get back in touch with his offensive side.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

I think the Flames should loan him to the Oilers for a couple of months so he can get defence out of his head, and get back in touch with his offensive side.

Temp loaning Sven Baertschi for Nail Yakupov might actually help both players?

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by dino7c

"common rhetoric" vs. "fanboy bias"

maybe the truth lies somewhere in the middle...he has been average at best down there and needs to be better

I guess you'll have to watch the games and tell me then.

[ben voyonsdonc]

I'd ride out the storm as long as possible with Sven. At this point, why sell low? Something just might click and he could find that spark. Keep the faith.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Adirondack was rattled by the treatment of Scorch. The best thing they could do is bring him back and then the team and Sven can get back to not operating walking on eggshells.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by nik-

Because new management came in and decided to make a statement using him. Then they decided they wanted him to be a different player.

Did management ask him to be a different player, or to date has Sven not been able to be the player he needs to be without sacrificing other aspects of the game too much that he's simply not NHL level?

I honestly don't know which it is, I'm not a smart enough hockey guy to know, but I'd wager management will say its that in order to out up points in the NHL, which Sven needs to do to have a spot, his game in other areas is simply not strong enough to warrant the offence he puts up. Simply put, he can't put the points while maintaining a minimum standard in other aspects. Sven supporters would say the Flames tried to change him.

Like I said, I can't honestly say which it is, but I struggle to understand why the Flames, low on offensive prospects would feel the need to change him, so I'm guessing it's the fact that he hasn't yet been able to put up points while having an NHL level game in other aspects that holds him back.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Sven is hardly a 'bust' at the moment, but I would categorize that situation as worrisome. At some point, he needs to produce. Ferland and Granlund are producing decently on the Heat. You would have to think they are the next in line for a call-up, and possibly others as well.

Sven hasn't emerged in the AHL as the best player on that team. He fell pretty hard organizationally. It is up to him to boost himself back up. Will be interesting to see how much his pedigree plays into him getting called up - no NHL team, even with new management, wants to simply disregard a former first round pick. Without question, there are guys on that team much more deserving of a call-up, and I hope they get it ahead of Sven if they continue to be better players down there.

[kehatch]

I don't know if it's Hartley's, Burke's, Feaster's, or Baertschi's fault. What I do know is that his game was NHL caliber but has regressed, as has his value. That's piss poor prospect and asset development. Hopefully he turns it around.

[Wastedyouth]

Small sample size guys. He's been fairly solid previous to this year.

[playmaker]

In my opinion, rather than focusing on Sven's AHL numbers and calling him a bust, we should first take a look back at the strength of 2011 draft class in terms of raw offensive talent and temper expectations accordingly.
With all respect to the top 3 picks (RNH, Landeskog and Huberdeau) none of them looks like the guy you can build your team around at this point. The range of 10-15 included picks such as Duncan Siemens or Jamie Oleksiak - both likely developing into bottom pairing dmen. Sure, there were some interesting pieces available (Couturier, Strome) but long gone at 13 therefore I wouldn't blame anybody for selecting Sven when we were looking for a skilled guy.

I think it is safe to say that in a particularly strong draft year like 2013 Sven wouldn't be picked in the top 20 and no one would be looking at him as a savior of the franchise but as a talented 2nd line scoring winger - pretty much what his ceiling was supposed to be. I guess no one will argue that Poirier and Klimchuk can breathe much easier as #22 and #28 picks.

Sven has to understand that spending another full year in AHL is not the rock bottom for a 22 year old 180 pound european. The guys like Ondrej Palat, Tomas Tatar or Gustav Nyquist ... they all had to battle through it.

That being said, I'm not sure how it helps to call up Sven to the already undersized team, let him pick up some assists and be outmuscled most of the time. How would that help his confidence?
Be patient and let him battle through it - the communication with coaches in Adirondack is the key. Sven needs to rediscover the passion he once had for hockey.

[Tinordi]

I wouldn't say he's a bust, yet. But his upside is definitely being revised from top line winger to a 50 point 2nd liner or 3rd line plucky scorer. Sort of like a Carl Soderberg or something like that.

He's just too incomplete of a player, not fast enough, not big enough, not creative enough, not a good enough sniper to be a top line player in the league.

[FlameZilla]

Who have his linemates been in Addy?

The kid needs a lucky break. I'm sure if a goal went in off his shin or his arse or something he'd start to produce again. I seem to remember him being a streaky player back in junior, and when he would go on a hot streak he would completely dominate statistically.

Too early to call him a bust, though plenty of posters will proclaim him as such. If he can get a bit of luck (better bounces) a bit of confidence and maybe add a gear or two of top end speed (often seemed a step behind the play in the NHL last season) then we'll see him up here soon.

[bubbsy]

Excuse after excuse with this kid. He is definitely trending towards bust territory.

I think it's a lesson in not getting into the hype when prospects put up points in their post draft year. That should be a given but holds less weight than I imagined when it comes to being a good nhl'er one day.

He went from being a kid applauded for his work ethic and hunger to get better to ... Well something quite different.

It is coming to put up or shut up time for him.

[N26]

Imagine if you will it is a less information-overloaded age. Say 20 years ago. When all the public information about a prospect would be much more limited. Basic stats and a small blurb of a THN Future Watch nature. It may look something like this:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sven Bärtschi
Age 22
Height 5'11
Weight 190

Junior 113 67 112 179 110 +38
AHL 81 23 33 56 38 -9
NHL 51 8 16 24 16 -2

Junior scoring star is adapting his skill set to the professional game with some ups and downs. Has worked on strength and defensive issues and is close to making the team. Needs more consistency and the right opportunity with the big club to make the final step.
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Now I'm not some anti-Fancy stats guy and I am most certainly not anti-information age and technology. I'm in France right now and I listened to the last 2 periods of the Adirondack game the other day, Awesome!

But the Sven debate is getting a little hysterical at times and a look at the basics, counting stats and short summary, suggests things aren't too bad. And for a team that has done a pretty sh#tty job with its prospects over the past 20 years we should be happy. He's developing. Not as fast as anybody wants including himself but still there is a lot of 'big picture' progress. We have sucked at development for a long time. You have to go back to Cory Stillman to find something equivalent.

Actually one of the main reasons I come to CP is for the hysteria and silly flame wars so I am not sure why I feel the need to try and be the voice of reason in this. I think I read the word "bust" far too many times probably.

Someone in the Detroit system would probably look at Bärtschi and think "right on schedule". Let's be the Detroit model.