Backlund is a secret star!

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Do you believe once the rebuild is over that Backlund will get top 6 ice time at centre over Monahan and Bennett? I certainly don't.

I agree with you but I don't see Backlid being this teams 3rd line center when the rebuild is over. I think he will be a piece that could be moved when guys like Monahan, Bennett, and perhaps our 2015 first rounder are ready to take the reins. I certainly think most of not all of us see Monahan and Bennett as the future top 2 right now leaving Backlund as the number 3

Due to the new love for analytics I think Backlund is due to at least triple his cap hit on the next contract. It might be signed with the flames but I get the feeling it won't end here.

[Street Pharmacist]

I really hope we get Hanifin

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

It’s like you saw the word “ star” in the title of the article, saw some of the names being referenced for the sake of comparing the statistics - and blew a gasket.

The words "secret star" in the title is clearly alluding to the fact he’s a young, relatively unknown player (league wide) quietly putting together some very solid statistics (as referenced by the graphs). Also lost on you is the fact that many of those names wouldn’t be considered “stars” in general. Putting up solid numbers in a second or third line role doesn’t have to equate to stardom, but they are important players nonetheless.

.....

All in all, it seems that a really straight forward article about how Backlund is progressing into a good young centre quickly became a spat about a few hot button words / player names when that clearly wasn’t the intention of the article. The fact the thread veered so far off into trying to downplay Bakclund in a Flames forum is especially sad, seeing how it went from an opportunity to underline the ludicrousness of “where are u Chris O’Sullivan” to allowing him to further his asinine agenda.

If Backlund was 32 and on this team two years ago, he may have still been "young". He certainly isn't young (as an excuse) any longer. Monahan scored 20 last year, there are other kids considerably younger than him that could do that next year.

Enough "well written" pieces, lets focus on the ice and stats now? Finally? To that end he's a minus player, the only -3 on the team, he's lost several key faceoffs (badly). He's 9th on the team in scoring despite co-leading the forwards in toi.

[JiriHrdina]

Just admit you were wrong about him. It would actually gain you a bit of respect

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Where ru Chris O'Sullivan

To that end he's a minus player, the only -3 on the team, he's lost several key faceoffs (badly). He's 9th on the team in scoring despite co-leading the forwards in toi.

I'm sorry... what "end" is that?

The annual "3-game-mark break"?

Your take just keep getting more and more insane.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by Where ru Chris O'Sullivan

If Backlund was 32 and on this team two years ago, he may have still been "young". He certainly isn't young (as an excuse) any longer. Monahan scored 20 last year, there are other kids considerably younger than him that could do that next year.

Enough "well written" pieces, lets focus on the ice and stats now? Finally? To that end he's a minus player, the only -3 on the team, he's lost several key faceoffs (badly). He's 9th on the team in scoring despite co-leading the forwards in toi.

Sure, let's focus on the stats.

He IS 9th.
Which is a whole 3 points different than 1st.

He HAS lost a few faceoffs.
But has best record in the dot on the entire team.

He IS -3.
Three games in, being kept company by other centers in the league by the likes of Seguin, O'Reilly, and Giroux.

+/- doesn't illustrate much, and even less so 3 games into a season.

So that's stats, I guess.

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

Sure, let's focus on the stats.

He IS 9th.
Which is a whole 3 points different than 1st.

He HAS lost a few faceoffs.
But has best record in the dot on the entire team.

He IS -3.
Three games in, being kept company by other centers in the league by the likes of Seguin, O'Reilly, and Giroux.

+/- doesn't illustrate much, and even less so 3 games into a season.

So that's stats, I guess.

Look, you can't have it both ways.

This is no different than the apologists who will quote his defensive zone starts, blocked shots etc. when he has another season in the books that doesn't live up to the, (lets be honest) overly mild expectations that CP seems to place on him. Take a walk through a GlenX thread - to see the contrast.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Do you believe once the rebuild is over that Backlund will get top 6 ice time at centre over Monahan and Bennett? I certainly don't.

No, but do you think it is unfathomable that Backlund remains a top 6 center until they develop enough to wrestle it away from him?

Also, with a bunch of centers in the organization (and keep in mind, the Flames seem to like Colborne as a center), it is not unthinkable that they move Backlund to a wing.

I think what people are arguing with you and that you are missing was that Vinny didn't declare Backlund WILL attain those numbers, simply that he could attain those numbers if things go right. It is a huge difference between the statements. Had he declared that Backlund will be a perennial 70pt center in the league and win multiple Selkes, then I wouldn't be defending him or his post (though I would smile at his positivity, actually).

However, nobody really knows where Backlund's ceiling is. If you think he is a completely finished product, then fine. I don't, and I don't think many posters share this view. Also, if you look at how the Flames utilize Backlund, it is essentially a defensive player. He does incredibly well (as evidenced by this article), but to be scoring at such a high pace under those circumstances is incredibly difficult. Just look at the Sedins last year. Sure, I think they are regressing, but because Torts decided to use them defensively as well as offensively, their numbers dropped off the cliff. Conversely, isn't it at least plausible to assume that if the Flames utilized Backlund in much more of an offensive manner, that you would see increases in his production? What if they have him a couple of good wingers? Would that not help him achieve loftier numbers further?

Just to make it clear, he is NOT the Sedins - merely an illustration to show you how even 'elite' talent regresses when utilized in a more defensive role.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Where ru Chris O'Sullivan

Look, you can't have it both ways.

This is no different than the apologists who will quote his defensive zone starts, blocked shots etc. when he has another season in the books that doesn't live up to the, (lets be honest) overly mild expectations that CP seems to place on him. Take a walk through a GlenX thread - to see the contrast.

What do you even mean?

You can't have what both ways exactly?

"Apologists" quoting his defensive zone starts? There are very few centers in the NHL that score at a high clip with facing these many zone starts. Sedins fell off the cliff when utilized more defensively (and still loads of PP time). Sounds like REASONING to me - reasonable, insightful and valid argument.

What is 'overly mild'? Do you even know what you are saying any longer? Mild = 'middle-ground', or lukewarm, medium, etc. So you are saying CP places overly-medium expectations?

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Just admit you were wrong about him. It would actually gain you a bit of respect

Well, I am not sure exactly what anyone is/was wrong about so far?

He hasn't produced very well, despite having the opportunity of being given a ton of ice time just out of default - a rebuild. I don't think its unsafe to say that had he performed at this level for "a lot" of other clubs (NHL and otherwise), he'd be wearing new silks by now?

I'll be here when he starts hitting 20 goals consecutively or we lift his jersey to the rafters, just as I'll be here when he has his first 40 point season, or when he never does.

But, when I get baited into numerous threads from posters wanting me to bow down to his greatness, now (250 games in, 100 points in total over his career). Come get me when he's done something?

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

What do you even mean?

You can't have what both ways exactly?

"Apologists" quoting his defensive zone starts? There are very few centers in the NHL that score at a high clip with facing these many zone starts. Sedins fell off the cliff when utilized more defensively (and still loads of PP time). Sounds like REASONING to me - reasonable, insightful and valid argument.

What is 'overly mild'? Do you even know what you are saying any longer? Mild = 'middle-ground', or lukewarm, medium, etc. So you are saying CP places overly-medium expectations?

I'm saying he could finish this year playing 18 mins. per, have 8 goals and 20 assists and there would be a dedicated thread, saying he is still one of our best night in night out....

Mild doesn't equal middle ground, it equals mild/tame/low.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Where ru Chris O'Sullivan

Well, I am not sure exactly what anyone is/was wrong about so far?

Who is it you think you're fooling here? Do you honestly think you can just spout random bits of craziness and that it will just disappear?

Originally Posted by Where ru Chris O'Sullivan

He has 1 more season to prove his worth or he's off to the KHL. I know we are starved for anyone/thing to be young and actually be valuable to this team, but we can't ignore what's been in front of us....nothing special.

YOU said Backlund wouldn't make it in the NHL. You had it (along with some other deluded ramblings) in your sig for the better part of two years until embarrassment caused you to change it.

Now, you lurk here waiting for opportunities to exclusively take swipes at the kid for no reason other than to save face with regard to the asinine comments you've made about him in the past. I get that it's your schtick, but do you seriously think you can come in here and act like it isn't crazy and pretend you haven't said things you very clearly did? I just can't fathom what it would be like to have this kind of agenda as a pass time.

[Arya Stark]

Wow, I have never seen someone so committed to hating a player.

This has to be personal against Backlund. Maybe an old friend who is jealous or something.

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Wow, I have never seen someone so committed to hating a player.

If rap music has taught me anything, it's that player hating is on the rise.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by Where ru Chris O'Sullivan

Well, I am not sure exactly what anyone is/was wrong about so far?

He hasn't produced very well, despite having the opportunity of being given a ton of ice time just out of default - a rebuild. I don't think its unsafe to say that had he performed at this level for "a lot" of other clubs (NHL and otherwise), he'd be wearing new silks by now?

I'll be here when he starts hitting 20 goals consecutively or we lift his jersey to the rafters, just as I'll be here when he has his first 40 point season, or when he never does.

But, when I get baited into numerous threads from posters wanting me to bow down to his greatness, now (250 games in, 100 points in total over his career). Come get me when he's done something?

So you think he's maxed out at 39 points?

8 goals and 20 assists would represent his lowest goal, assist, and point total in 3 seasons?

Seems like with such a step back he'd probably get less praise than you're claiming?

I haven't seen anyone say he'll get his jersey retired?

I think at 25 he'd be amongst the many players at his age that don't get traded because they start putting up solid points at 23?

I also use question marks after statements?

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Where ru Chris O'Sullivan

Well, I am not sure exactly what anyone is/was wrong about so far?

He hasn't produced very well, despite having the opportunity of being given a ton of ice time just out of default - a rebuild. I don't think its unsafe to say that had he performed at this level for "a lot" of other clubs (NHL and otherwise), he'd be wearing new silks by now?

I'll be here when he starts hitting 20 goals consecutively or we lift his jersey to the rafters, just as I'll be here when he has his first 40 point season, or when he never does.

But, when I get baited into numerous threads from posters wanting me to bow down to his greatness, now (250 games in, 100 points in total over his career). Come get me when he's done something?

You lack the courage to keep your old signature, so excuse me if I take you even less seriously now.

[Coach]

I thought having Chris join this thread would be fun.

I was wrong.

[jemjey]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Wow, I have never seen someone so committed to hating a player.

This has to be personal against Backlund. Maybe an old friend who is jealous or something.

I'd call it a grade A case of butthurt-itis.

[Chill Cosby]

I wish more people would get into the question marks after statements. I feel so alone?

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Where ru Chris O'Sullivan

I'm saying he could finish this year playing 18 mins. per, have 8 goals and 20 assists and there would be a dedicated thread, saying he is still one of our best night in night out....

Mild doesn't equal middle ground, it equals mild/tame/low.

Mild = tame? Low? Which one is it? Tame or Low?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/mild

Sure sounds somewhere in the 'medium' for me. A mild heat-wave = a heat wave that is not too hot. A mild winter day = a winter day that is not very cold.

So, ok, you are stating that CP's expectations for him are 'low'? I still don't buy it. I think CP is expecting him to continue developing, and start being included on the scoresheet a bit more. How much more? Varying degrees between posters, but the expectation is there for him to improve offensively to some degree. The posters on CP are becoming 'ecstatic' with him because he is such a good defensive player who does very well against the elite players on other teams. Is this not enough? People were expecting MORE offensively from Backlund last year, and strictly offensively-speaking, he did 'disappoint' - but only if you are stat-watching. I knew he was becoming a very good defensive center, but didn't realize he was doing THAT well against the league's best players consistently. So yes, there are 'fans' of Backlund on CP, and rightfully so.

Also, you seem unable to grasp what exactly the quality of competition means, or how much more difficult it is to score when the majority of zone starts are from the defensive side. You do realize that 8 goals and 20 assists is often more valuable than 9 goals and 21 assists, right? I mean, on the scoresheet, it means the exact same thing, but...

Ok, so you don't like advanced stats when talking about Backlund. Fine. Let's talk regular stats.

Last year, Backlund scored 4 short handed goals. Do you think those goals are harder or easier to score than a PP goal? Not impressed with that stat? Well, that was tied for 3rd in the NHL last year.

How about that he was a +4? Good for 4th on the team. On a team that finished 27th in the NHL last year, with a -32 as their team +/-. Not an easy feat. How about that he had to do this against the other team's best players every night? Does that count for something? How about the weird stat last year where for 13 or 14 straight games, no team was able to score an even-strength goal against Calgary while Backlund was on the ice. Is this more or less of a purely irrelevant observation that means nothing, or does it show something?

You keep insinuating that Backlund is some sort of a failure pick. You kept telling CP that he is NOT an NHL-caliber player and never will be, and that he should be plying his trade in the KHL.

Just maybe, MAYBE, you are wrong about him? That he is an EXCELLENT defensive center, and that we MIGHT be seeing the development of his offensive game to some degree? 39 points in 76 games with only 11 points coming off the PP isn't too shabby at all, and factoring in QofC and defensive zone starts (by which it simply IS more difficult circumstances to score under) makes his numbers seem pretty decent.

You are just wrong about Backlund. The fact that you keep going into Backlund discussion threads and trying to convince others that you are right is becoming humorous. You don't have to remain on your (quickly) sinking ship. Jump off, and admit that you are wrong