Draisaitl, Bennett the next Staal, Toews?

[Badgers Nose]

We need a real time ticker of Sam's body weight. Stat!

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

We need a real time ticker of Sam's body weight. Stat!

And we've officially crossed the border into Creepytown.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

We need a real time ticker of Sam's body weight. Stat!

Considering the #1 reason Edmonton took Draisaitl was size it would be hilarious if Sam turns out bigger than Leon.

Is it out of the realm? Sam is now the same height and is 8 months younger.

[GettinIggyWithIt]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Here is one of those extremely important numbers:

Nathan MacKinnon — 18
Ondrej Palat — 22
Tyler Johnson — 23
Torey Krug — 22
Olli Maatta — 19
Jacob Trouba — 20
Hampus Lindholm — 20
Sean Monahan — 19

This is how old each player was when he finished the 2014 NHL season. From the top eight, only Nathan MacKinnon is younger than Sean Monahan, and the next three of the top four all have at least three years on him.

Eighth highest scoring rookie? So what. Monahan was the second highest scoring player from his draft class.Johnson and Palat both had two full seasons in the AHL before their rookie years.

Good point. Also the other 3 players that finished ahead of Monahan in scoring (Kreider, Chiasson and Bjugstad) were all 22-23 I believe.

[bubbsy]

on HF, there is a thread about mackinnon's weight coming into camp this year (with pictures).... he's gotten big...

if no injuries, i'd imagine he'll be top 10 in scoring in the league, if not this season, then definitely by next.

[BurningSteel]

Which one of these guys was projected to go 1st overall? Sorry I cant remember.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

on HF, there is a thread about mackinnon's weight coming into camp this year (with pictures).... he's gotten big...

if no injuries, i'd imagine he'll be top 10 in scoring in the league, if not this season, then definitely by next.

Yep. MacKinnon is going to be an elite player in the very near future. His skating ability is what's going to separate him from lots of the other comparable centers that have been drafted lately.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

As usual, you're just looking at one number and letting that make a conclusion for you.

Monahan missed games due to significant injury, and then took time to recover from said injury once returning. Definitely worth noting when just looking at rookie point totals.

In ppg he drops to 14th. He played a lot of games for a rookie. Missing a total of 7 games is NOT a significant injury.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Here is one of those extremely important numbers:

Nathan MacKinnon — 18
Ondrej Palat — 22
Tyler Johnson — 23
Torey Krug — 22
Olli Maatta — 19
Jacob Trouba — 20
Hampus Lindholm — 20
Sean Monahan — 19

This is how old each player was when he finished the 2014 NHL season. From the top eight, only Nathan MacKinnon is younger than Sean Monahan, and the next three of the top four all have at least three years on him.

Eighth highest scoring rookie? So what. Monahan was the second highest scoring player from his draft class.Johnson and Palat both had two full seasons in the AHL before their rookie years.

Exactly when did CP turn into an Oiler-type fanboy site?

Monahan had a reasonably good year for a rookie.

In Calgary compared to our past rookies it was freakin' phenomenal.


In Edmonton their 19 year olds Gagner, Hall, RNH and Yakapov had better 19 year old years than Monahan. whoop-de-effn-do!!!

It has become a universal truth on CP that the Oilers pushed these guys too fast... too early But when the Flames do it with Monahan it seems we want to declare him the best that has ever been.


If Bennett doesn't match Monahan as a 19 year old then was he a waste of a pick? (answer: of course not) If Monahan puts up only 40 pts as a 20 year old is he a bust?


If Monahan would have played junior last year would it have been better and have him and Gaudreau both as Calder finalists?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Exactly when did CP turn into an Oiler-type fanboy site?

Monahan had a reasonably good year for a rookie.

In Calgary compared to our past rookies it was freakin' phenomenal.


In Edmonton their 19 year olds Gagner, Hall, RNH and Yakapov had better 19 year old years than Monahan. whoop-de-effn-do!!!

It has become a universal truth on CP that the Oilers pushed these guys too fast... too early But when the Flames do it with Monahan it seems we want to declare him the best that has ever been.

Good god. The hyperbole. I and others have been attempting to point out that Monahan's rookie season was indeed better than you have credited him. It was a great 19-year-old season. Compared to the number of 19-year-old seasons there are at the NHL level every year, and how he performed comparatively, it is difficult to see otherwise.

Do you believe that Monahan was rushed? To me it looked like he earned his spot on the roster, and never really looked out of place. I don't think that Hall or Eberle were rushed to the NHL, and I also hold that the same is probably true for Nugent Hopkins. But I think the Oilers fairly deserve some criticism in that that he probably would have been better served in terms of his physical development by an additional year of Juniour. In any case, that was a difficult scenario, and the biggest problem therein was the fact that the Oilers had no fallback, and were unable to properly shelter him in his rookie year.

But of course, there is more to he story in your comparisons with past Oilers rookies.
· Gagner played similar minutes in his rookie year to Monahan, but he played over 40 seconds more on the power play per game. As expected, he had double the power play production that Monahan did.
· Both Hall was among the top-four forwards in TOI for the Oilers his rookie year, and he registered nearly a full minute more per game on the power play than Monahan. Eberle had similar ice-time to Monahan in his rookie year, but he also played about 30 seconds more/game on the power play. Each player understandably outscored Monahan on the power play.
· Nugent Hopkins was fourth on the Oilers in ice time in his rookie year, and played more than a minute more on the power play than Monahan. He also had a tonne more power play points than Monahan.

Without a fuller look at the breakdown for each of these players shift charts, I would hazard a guess that Monahan was deployed differently in his rookie year than these Oilers players, and that this also affected his production and possession numbers. Having said that, I don't think that anyone has ever questioned how good each of these Oilers players looked in their rookie years. The problem with the Oilers historically has not been what happens in their players first years, it is what follows or fails to follow with each following season of ineptitude.

All things considered, Monahan had a great rookie season.

Originally Posted by ricardodw

If Bennett doesn't match Monahan as a 19 year old then was he a waste of a pick? (answer: of course not) If Monahan puts up only 40 pts as a 20 year old is he a bust?

Honestly, what the hell are you talking about? Has anyone even insinuated anything close to what you imply in these rhetorical questions in this thread? On this site?! This is nonsense.

Originally Posted by ricardodw

If Monahan would have played junior last year would it have been better and have him and Gaudreau both as Calder finalists?

Maybe. So what? It doesn't detract from what he DID do last year.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

In ppg he drops to 14th. He played a lot of games for a rookie. Missing a total of 7 games is NOT a significant injury.

The time it took to get back up to speed after returning from injury most certainly was significant when looking at his season as a whole . It was a foot injury, and in case you didn't know, feet are pretty integral to skating.

Good lord it's painful reading how you arrive at the conclusions you do. Not much more to add after Textcritic tore your mixed up attempt at logic here to pieces.

[SportsJunky]

ricardo isn't out to lunch here. He's saying Monahan had a "reasonably good" year last year and others are saying he had a good rookie year. I don't get the debate really.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

ricardo isn't out to lunch here. He's saying Monahan had a "reasonably good" year last year and others are saying he had a good rookie year. I don't get the debate really.

I think people are just on edge because it seems that the off season has just dragged. In a weeks times this will all be water under the bridge as there will be games to play.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

ricardo isn't out to lunch here. He's saying Monahan had a "reasonably good" year last year and others are saying he had a good rookie year. I don't get the debate really.

You sir are obvious not a true Flames fan or hockey expert:

Originally Posted by Textcritic

All things considered, Monahan had a great rookie season.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

ricardo isn't out to lunch here. He's saying Monahan had a "reasonably good" year last year and others are saying he had a good rookie year. I don't get the debate really.

For me, it is more about how much nuance pervades such statements. My post above was merely to show that Monahan's year was much better than merely "eighth best" among 2014 NHL rookies. Rather, this was a great accomplishment for a 19-year-old player, within a field of players quite a bit older than him.

Originally Posted by ricardodw

You sir are obvious not a true Flames fan or hockey expert:

This has nothing to do with being a "fan" or an "expert." Rather, this is about how carefully we employ and evaluate numbers.

[RyZ]

I'd also like to point out that Monahan had some pretty low level line mates for the most point last season. He didn't get to play with Duschene, O'Reilly and Landeskog or St Louis and Stamkos or Benn and Seguin or on the PP with Crosby and Malkin like some of the other rookies did. He played most of the season with Joe Colborne and was arguably most successful in the early going with another rookie in Sven Baertschi.

Monahan was more than fine in the situation he was in last season.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

You sir are obvious not a true Flames fan or hockey expert:

Coming soon to CP: The RTFFI and the RHEI. The only two true measures of knowing your ####.



Anyone who wouldn't say Monahan had an impressive rookie season is just trying to be argumentative. Good lord.

[bubbsy]

man do we need to get some actual hockey to talk about as we're getting desperate to debate the unnecessary.

monohan didn't have a mackinnon type rookie season, agreed. he came in as a teenager, and accomplished, at the NHL level, something that it took backlund several years of development to do, which is show actual offensive output in the league with the big boys.

I love how backlund has developed, and am uber excited to see how monahan progresses from a solid first year in the league, at an age where most players aren't able to stick, let alone contribute.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

ricardo isn't out to lunch here. He's saying Monahan had a "reasonably good" year last year and others are saying he had a good rookie year. I don't get the debate really.

For me "reasonably good" is meeting expectations, and Sean pretty much knocked it out of the park last year. So for me ricardo's "reasonably good" judgement is a load of BS.

[fatso]

Originally Posted by fatso

Damn... "Monahan had a reasonably successful rookie season...". Seriously? Must be getting paid by the word.

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Monahan was the 8th highest scoring rookie..... that is reasonably good.... He was not in contention to being a Calder finalist.

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Good god. The hyperbole. I and others have been attempting to point out that Monahan's rookie season was indeed better than you have credited him. It was a great 19-year-old season. Compared to the number of 19-year-old seasons there are at the NHL level every year, and how he performed comparatively, it is difficult to see otherwise.

Do you believe that Monahan was rushed? To me it looked like he earned his spot on the roster, and never really looked out of place. I don't think that Hall or Eberle were rushed to the NHL, and I also hold that the same is probably true for Nugent Hopkins. But I think the Oilers fairly deserve some criticism in that that he probably would have been better served in terms of his physical development by an additional year of Juniour. In any case, that was a difficult scenario, and the biggest problem therein was the fact that the Oilers had no fallback, and were unable to properly shelter him in his rookie year.

But of course, there is more to he story in your comparisons with past Oilers rookies.
· Gagner played similar minutes in his rookie year to Monahan, but he played over 40 seconds more on the power play per game. As expected, he had double the power play production that Monahan did.
· Both Hall was among the top-four forwards in TOI for the Oilers his rookie year, and he registered nearly a full minute more per game on the power play than Monahan. Eberle had similar ice-time to Monahan in his rookie year, but he also played about 30 seconds more/game on the power play. Each player understandably outscored Monahan on the power play.
· Nugent Hopkins was fourth on the Oilers in ice time in his rookie year, and played more than a minute more on the power play than Monahan. He also had a tonne more power play points than Monahan.

Without a fuller look at the breakdown for each of these players shift charts, I would hazard a guess that Monahan was deployed differently in his rookie year than these Oilers players, and that this also affected his production and possession numbers. Having said that, I don't think that anyone has ever questioned how good each of these Oilers players looked in their rookie years. The problem with the Oilers historically has not been what happens in their players first years, it is what follows or fails to follow with each following season of ineptitude.

All things considered, Monahan had a great rookie season.


Honestly, what the hell are you talking about? Has anyone even insinuated anything close to what you imply in these rhetorical questions in this thread? On this site?! This is nonsense.


Maybe. So what? It doesn't detract from what he DID do last year.

Didn't mean to derail the thread into a 'what is the appropriate adjective for Monahan's rookie year' argument. Textcritic has given an excellent response why 'reasonably' was an inappropriate qualifier in the circumstances, and he's expressed our position much better than I could.

Monahan had a successful season. No qualifier needed. But if they wanted one, and for the reasons Textcritic outlined, I would have suggested "very" or "remarkably" precede the appropriate use of the word 'successful'.