Bertuzzi and Moore working on out of court settlement

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

Yes it does.

No, it doesn't - unless we are talking about different things (which is possible).

Moore's camp will claim based on average NHL player career which includes all manner of reasons folks no longer play the game. Bertie's camp can not suggest (or at least they'd be silly to suggest) a lower settlement based on the fact they think Moore might have gotten hit by lightning the next day.

If Moore's camp was suggesting he would have played in the NHL until he was 44 yrs old then I'd agree they'd be stupid and 'potential injuries' would come into play.

I'm sure one of our resident lawyers can correct me but I suspect Moore's claim for $65M included all of:

1) Lost earnings from his NHL career. This would be based on his current status with the Avs at the time of the attack, his salary, the expected rise in salary and the average length of career in the NHL along with average salary. I'm sure Bertie/Nuck lawyers would argue that Moore was below average, would have probably had a short career and wasn't very good.

2) Lost earnings from post-NHL career. Already discussed somewhat.

3) Pain and suffering.

4) Punitive damages, although I think these are pretty much non-existent in Canada.

[Meers]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

there was some contention in the case about where he could have done as a Harvard business grad though

Moore wasn't a Harvard MBA, he just had an undergraduate degree.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Meers

Moore wasn't a Harvard MBA, he just had an undergraduate degree.

Measuring the Value of a Harvard Degree

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/20...-of-a-harvard/

According to payscale.com, the median starting salary of emerging Harvard undergraduates who work full-time in the United States is $63,400; even without pursuing further schooling, they boast mid-career median salaries of $124,000. Compare these numbers to the median earnings of the average American male—$45,113 in 2007—and the evidence that a Harvard education increases one’s earning potential appears incontrovertible.

A Harvard degree remains a strong predictor of high earnings later in life—yet it cannot guarantee success. Attempts to place a dollar amount on human life offend our moral sensibilities; success, too, is insufficiently captured by the callousness of a quantity. Ultimately, it is the prerogative of each individual to secure success on her own terms, whether they be monetary or otherwise.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by old-fart

No, it doesn't - unless we are talking about different things (which is possible).

Moore's camp will claim based on average NHL player career which includes all manner of reasons folks no longer play the game. Bertie's camp can not suggest (or at least they'd be silly to suggest) a lower settlement based on the fact they think Moore might have gotten hit by lightning the next day.

If Moore's camp was suggesting he would have played in the NHL until he was 44 yrs old then I'd agree they'd be stupid and 'potential injuries' would come into play.

I'm sure one of our resident lawyers can correct me but I suspect Moore's claim for $65M included all of:

1) Lost earnings from his NHL career. This would be based on his current status with the Avs at the time of the attack, his salary, the expected rise in salary and the average length of career in the NHL along with average salary. I'm sure Bertie/Nuck lawyers would argue that Moore was below average, would have probably had a short career and wasn't very good.

2) Lost earnings from post-NHL career. Already discussed somewhat.

3) Pain and suffering.

4) Punitive damages, although I think these are pretty much non-existent in Canada.

I think that is about right. Not my area of expertise, but my understanding is that the compensation should be the net present value of expected future earnings, with a relatively small amount attributable to pain and suffering and likely nothing in the way of punitive damages. Doesn't sound like the settlement will be made public, but it would be interesting to hear the details.
Edit: That should be net present value of lost earnings. It is still possible that he can do something to mitigate the losses. Also, I suppose it is possible that there is a real material loss that relates to pain and suffering, if there are actual medical expenses associated with his condition.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by troutman

Measuring the Value of a Harvard Degree

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/20...-of-a-harvard/

According to payscale.com, the median starting salary of emerging Harvard undergraduates who work full-time in the United States is $63,400; even without pursuing further schooling, they boast mid-career median salaries of $124,000. Compare these numbers to the median earnings of the average American male—$45,113 in 2007—and the evidence that a Harvard education increases one’s earning potential appears incontrovertible.

A Harvard degree remains a strong predictor of high earnings later in life—yet it cannot guarantee success. Attempts to place a dollar amount on human life offend our moral sensibilities; success, too, is insufficiently captured by the callousness of a quantity. Ultimately, it is the prerogative of each individual to secure success on her own terms, whether they be monetary or otherwise.

Playing devil's advocate here, but that sounds like confusing correlation with causation to me. Do Harvard grads enjoy higher salaries solely because they have a degree from a highly-prestigious university, or do they have higher salaries because they are typically more intelligent and driven than the average American, qualities that were necessary to get accepted into Harvard but also serve them well in their professional careers?

[Edit]
Reading the full article, the author makes exactly this point:

Yet deducing the high monetary value of a Harvard education from the fact that Harvard graduates make lots of money is problematic. Without sufficient correction for the unique characteristics of Harvard students, the value added by a top-tier education may be drastically overstated. By examining the incomes of adults who were accepted by a highly selective college but who choose to enroll at a less prestigious institution, Princeton economist Alan Krueger attempted to correct for such lurking factors as students’ maturity, motivation, and ambition that result in admission to competitive schools but also correlate with high earnings potential. His finding—that the adults who turned down the offer of elite education earned slightly more than their peers who pursued it—gives credence to the conclusion that Harvard students, not Harvard itself, account for the differences in income.

[MissTeeks]

It's done for real now:

Katie Strang‏@KatieStrangESPN2 mins

Despite earlier concerns of potential snag, Todd Bertuzzi's lawyer Geoff Adair confirms there is now a "firm and binding settlement"

Katie Strang‏@KatieStrangESPN2 mins

The terms of that settlement, as has been reported by multiple outlets, are bound by a confidentiality agreement agreed to by both parties

Katie Strang‏@KatieStrangESPN2 mins

Adair tells ESPN: "Suffice it to say, Todd Bertuzzi is happy this has arrived at a resolution, as I'm sure all parties are."

[old-fart]

That is an interesting article, but I believe either point plays directly in Moore's favour with respect to this lawsuit. Either he could have expected a higher than normal salary due to being a Harvard grad, or he could have expected a higher than normal salary due to having higher intelligence and drive as evidenced by being a Harvard grad. Either way, this would help establish what his potential "post NHL" career earnings might have been.

If for example, Ho-Sang gets "Bertuzzi'd" this coming season, I suspect he will have a more difficult time with the "post NHL" career conversation of any lawsuit having not attended Harvard (might be a poor example, just picked him because his name came up in another thread - there could be ample evidence that Ho-Sang is a borderline genius who invented the next iPod for all I know).

[KootenayFlamesFan]

We may never know the final numbers, but I hope Moore took Bertuzzi for all he could, and then some.

A disgrace a settlement took this long, and a disgrace Bertuzzi was allowed to continue his career after that attack.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

We may never know the final numbers, but I hope Moore took Bertuzzi for all he could, and then some.

A disgrace a settlement took this long, and a disgrace Bertuzzi was allowed to continue his career after that attack.

I doubt the seddlement put a big dent in Burts bank acct, most of the money probably came from the league and Orca.

[IamNotKenKing]

Old-fart and FB Slug:

Most of his damages will be for the net present value of future lost earnings, with his general damages for pain and suffering being about $110,000.00, based upon his injuries, as best as I know them. No matter what that NPV calculation is, there will still be a further discount or reduction worked in for "unexpected contingencies", even after the NPV is determined, which will be approximately a further 10% to 20% reduction. This is for all manner of other contingencies that could happen. Lightning strikes would not be included, as they are too remote, but another career ending injury or a motor vehicle accident, for example, would be.
The real loss mentioned relating to his pain and suffering is separate, and is called Special Damages, which are all out of pocket expenses. This is different than the General Damages for pain and suffering and separate again from loss of income.

The settlement likely increased general damages and awarded punitive damages in some amount as neither are not taxable, while loss of income is.

[bluejays]

I was actually really looking forward to the day in court where Moore could publically speak his mind. Todd was never the same either after the incident, but Moore really deserved his day in court. Anyone who know anything about law probably knew this was going to be settled last minute, but it really seemed like Moore wanted to air out his grievances.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by fleury

I was actually really looking forward to the day in court where Moore could publically speak his mind. Todd was never the same either after the incident, but Moore really deserved his day in court. Anyone who know anything about law probably knew this was going to be settled last minute, but it really seemed like Moore wanted to air out his grievances.

Well, there is still Festivus. ..

[Wedge]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

We may never know the final numbers, but I hope Moore took Bertuzzi for all he could, and then some.

A disgrace a settlement took this long, and a disgrace Bertuzzi was allowed to continue his career after that attack.

Disagree. Ironically Moore pulled a Canucks move with his embellishment in this scenario (numerous hospital/medical staff rumours). I expect to be ripped apart, but I feel bad for Todd who went after a coward in accordance with "the code".

Moore pulled a pretty cheap shot on Naslund. Down the road in a blowout game, Bertuzzi says to Moore that it's time to answer the bell. Moore declines, and Bertuzzi shows him that's not an option. In hindsight everyone would be happier if Moore "manned up" and simply got his nose broken.

Rip away.

[FireGilbert]

^ you are a troll.

[McG]

Originally Posted by Wedge

Disagree. Ironically Moore pulled a Canucks move with his embellishment in this scenario (numerous hospital/medical staff rumours). I expect to be ripped apart, but I feel bad for Todd who went after a coward in accordance with "the code".

Moore pulled a pretty cheap shot on Naslund. Down the road in a blowout game, Bertuzzi says to Moore that it's time to answer the bell. Moore declines, and Bertuzzi shows him that's not an option. In hindsight everyone would be happier if Moore "manned up" and simply got his nose broken.

Rip away.

i'm not going to feed you, but if this is your recollection of events from 10 years ago then your opinions will also be in error.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Wedge

Rip away.

Canucks fans gonna Canucks fan.

Always nice to have constant reminders of why you guys are widely regarded as the worst fans in professional sports.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Wedge

Disagree. Ironically Moore pulled a Canucks move with his embellishment in this scenario (numerous hospital/medical staff rumours). I expect to be ripped apart, but I feel bad for Todd who went after a coward in accordance with "the code".

Moore pulled a pretty cheap shot on Naslund. Down the road in a blowout game, Bertuzzi says to Moore that it's time to answer the bell. Moore declines, and Bertuzzi shows him that's not an option. In hindsight everyone would be happier if Moore "manned up" and simply got his nose broken.

Rip away.

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by Wedge

Disagree. Ironically Moore pulled a Canucks move with his embellishment in this scenario (numerous hospital/medical staff rumours). I expect to be ripped apart, but I feel bad for Todd who went after a coward in accordance with "the code".

Moore pulled a pretty cheap shot on Naslund. Down the road in a blowout game, Bertuzzi says to Moore that it's time to answer the bell. Moore declines, and Bertuzzi shows him that's not an option. In hindsight everyone would be happier if Moore "manned up" and simply got his nose broken.

Rip away.

There is so much obviously wrong with this post that it has to be a weak sauce troll attempt.

Enjoy the steady decline of the Nucks.

[albertGQ]

I was just talking to a local Calgary lawyer this morning so not sure how he would know the settlement details but he told me that the settlement was for $22M.

The NHL pays $15M of it with the remaining $7M split between Todd Bertuzzi and John McCaw

Take that for what it's worth.

[calf]

Originally Posted by Wedge

Disagree. Ironically Moore pulled a Canucks move with his embellishment in this scenario (numerous hospital/medical staff rumours). I expect to be ripped apart, but I feel bad for Todd who went after a coward in accordance with "the code".

Moore pulled a pretty cheap shot on Naslund. Down the road in a blowout game, Bertuzzi says to Moore that it's time to answer the bell. Moore declines, and Bertuzzi shows him that's not an option. In hindsight everyone would be happier if Moore "manned up" and simply got his nose broken.

Rip away.

Moore already fought Matt Cooke earlier in the game...why did he have to answer the bell twice?