Tesla Gigafactory

[calgarywinning]

Batteries are a fuel source. it takes energy and manufacturing to make them. After that they need to be _charged_. Then ultimately when they are used up they are discarded.

Arguing that fuel is not fuel doesn't make sense.

Search it up. Finally, the higher batteries are built from metals from the earth that are so rare. They have to excavate more sand than at the oil sands to come up with this stuff that is more rare then platinum for it's conductivity.

Your ice cubes at home are a representation of energy. You can't break the equation and say batteries aren't a fuel source.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by IgnitedSoul

This seems relevant—a quick look at ways Norway's encouraging people to buy electric cars

I just moved into a new place in July. My former landlord lives in Oslo (approx 350 kms from Kristiansand), and he came down driving a brand new Model S to look after things with my move out.

It was the top selling car in Norway this past year, and you can buy one for NOK 463,000. It is still closer to the high end for the cost of a new car here, but here is where the savings happen:

For my old Toyota diesel station wagon I paid:
· 15 NOK / litre for fuel
· 3600 NOK / annum usage tax
· 6600 NOK / annum EU registry
· approx. 6000 NOK / annum tolls (this is just for getting around town, and Kristiansand is a small city. I have friends who pay close to double this).

These are costs that every Tesla owner never has to deal with.

I don't think the savings off the sales price are correct from that video, but the cost to operate those cars in this country is basically nothing—and that is a big deal.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by calgarywinning

Batteries are a fuel source. it takes energy and manufacturing to make them. After that they need to be _charged_. Then ultimately when they are used up they are discarded.

Arguing that fuel is not fuel doesn't make sense.

Search it up. Finally, the higher batteries are built from metals from the earth that are so rare. They have to excavate more sand than at the oil sands to come up with this stuff that is more rare then platinum for it's conductivity.

Your ice cubes at home are a representation of energy. You can't break the equation and say batteries aren't a fuel source.

That's why they're searching for new battery technologies. Graphene maybe? We'll see what comes around.

Basically, we need to do this next because it is better than what we're doing now.

What is this metal that is rarer than platinum that they are using in the construction of lithium ion batteries?

The Tesla Gigafactory will encompass all phases of manufacturing (raw materials to finished product) and recycling of the batteries.

Just some of my thoughts.

[photon]

Originally Posted by calgarywinning

Batteries are a fuel source. it takes energy and manufacturing to make them.

Just because something takes energy to make doesn't make it a fuel source. It takes energy to make fresh water from salt water, water is not a fuel.

Something is a fuel if it has positive potential energy that can be practically released and used for work or heat energy.

Wood is a fuel because it can be harvested then burned to release heat. Gas is a fuel.

The energy to make a battery isn't part of the energy that is used to turn a motor. The energy to make a battery is like the energy to manufacture gas, chop down trees, or build a nuclear plant. The energy to manufacture gas isn't what makes gas a fuel, the chemical energy already in the chemical bonds is what makes gas a fuel.

Originally Posted by calgarywinning

After that they need to be _charged_. Then ultimately when they are used up they are discarded.

Batteries need to then be charged yes, using an actual fuel. The electricity has to come from burning coal or similar (chemical energy), or a nuclear plant or solar (nuclear energy).

And batteries aren't always discarded, they're recycled in the case of the Tesla.

Originally Posted by calgarywinning

Arguing that fuel is not fuel doesn't make sense.

Batteries aren't a fuel, they aren't a source of potential energy that can be harvested with less energy than they produce. From the point of view of the wheels of the car, I guess you could say a battery is a fuel since the wheels don't care where the energy comes from, but your point seems to be to look at the entire thing.

And I asked a question, what fuel source is better? If you claim there are better, actually listing them would be helpful.

Originally Posted by calgarywinning

Search it up.

Search what up?

Originally Posted by calgarywinning

Finally, the higher batteries are built from metals from the earth that are so rare. They have to excavate more sand than at the oil sands to come up with this stuff that is more rare then platinum for it's conductivity.

Evidence?

And again what do you propose that will be superior?

Originally Posted by calgarywinning

Your ice cubes at home are a representation of energy. You can't break the equation and say batteries aren't a fuel source.

You have to take energy away from water to make it into ice, not add it.

What equation are you talking about?

Where does the energy in a battery come from?

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

What is this metal that is rarer than platinum that they are using in the construction of lithium ion batteries?

Rare Earth metals are critical for all high tech gadgets. China holds a stranglehold on the stuff and has tried to use it as a strategic resource over other countries.

http://www.cnet.com/news/digging-for...ones-are-born/

A Prius has 10lbs of the stuff in every car.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...ements#slide-1

[lanny9]

Originally Posted by Stanathan

I wish this was built in Canada and further stimulated our economy. Shucks...

The problem here is that there would be a huge public outcry if our governments gave out the tax incentives that were just handed to Elon Musk. everyone would take the overly shortsighted approach and say that tax money could be used for infrastructure, healthcare, social issues etc. Instead of thinking long term where this company will pay billions upon billions of dollars in tax over it's lifetime, plus the high paying wages, personal income taxes that will be a result and all of the offshoot businesses etc that typically open up around such places.

It is too bad that Canada doesn't think this way and is why we have slipped so far down in the competitiveness rankings in the world. Give them a good tax break and they will come......

[lanny9]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Rare Earth metals are critical for all high tech gadgets. China holds a stranglehold on the stuff and has tried to use it as a strategic resource over other countries.

http://www.cnet.com/news/digging-for...ones-are-born/

A Prius has 10lbs of the stuff in every car.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...ements#slide-1

Want to beat China at their own game, you in Alberta have a huge resource staring you in the face and is within the oils sands....check out www.dnimetals.com This resource can be brought into production, as seen in Europe with similar style of metal recovery.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by lanny9

The problem here is that there would be a huge public outcry if our governments gave out the tax incentives that were just handed to Elon Musk. everyone would take the overly shortsighted approach and say that tax money could be used for infrastructure, healthcare, social issues etc. Instead of thinking long term where this company will pay billions upon billions of dollars in tax over it's lifetime, plus the high paying wages, personal income taxes that will be a result and all of the offshoot businesses etc that typically open up around such places.

It is too bad that Canada doesn't think this way and is why we have slipped so far down in the competitiveness rankings in the world. Give them a good tax break and they will come......

We do think this way and it's the reason Burger King is moving to Canada.

Personally I think it's a shame that we need to give tax breaks to big business so we can compete against other countries, provinces, cities, etc. We should compete on other merits such as a skilled labour force or cheap available resources that have to do with the business but meanwhile big corporations in general are making profits hand over fist and taxpayers have to subsidize them.

I'm not trying to lambaste Musk, he's just playing the well established game and as a business man he'd be a fool not to.

rant over

[Nehkara]

Stunning.

In the past month, Elon Musk's companies:

- Announced a deal in Nevada to build the Tesla GigaFactory (largest factory in the world for lithium ion batteries).

- Won a billion dollar contract from NASA for manned space flight.

- Successfully launched the 4th Dragon resupply mission to the ISS.

- Successfully launched AsiaSat 6 to geosynchronous orbit.

- Announced a deal to build the SolarCity GigaFactory in NY state (the largest solar panel factory in the western hemisphere).

- Broke ground on a new SpaceX spaceport in Texas.