Summer 2014 Prospect Ranking Poll Rd6

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by MattyC

That makes no sense to me. The point of the poll is to see where the board's overall opinion lies to get a semi-accurate look at where our prospects rank. If this was to be a blind survey, done all at once where people order their picks, that would be the result I think we're trying to get here. Like voting for awards. People give first place, second place votes etc..

I look at like we all have a list of where we think prospects are, if we combined those lists, what would the rankings be? Voting for players multiple times skews that.

The way that this ranking is selected makes more sense to get an overall sense of who the best prospect is per CP's opinion. It's logical to me to continuously pick the guy who you consider the best remaining on the table until he's gone then and not simply because you had him #3 or #4 on your overall list. We're making a ranking list - not comparing ranking lists.

If for example after Gaudreau and Bennett - I felt instead of Granlund or Poirier I believed Klimchuk deserved to be #3, and Poirier went instead, would it make sense to not pick Klimchuk the next chance I get, if I felt he was the best?

[Joe Nieuwendyk]

Originally Posted by MattyC

That makes no sense to me. The point of the poll is to see where the board's overall opinion lies to get a semi-accurate look at where our prospects rank. If this was to be a blind survey, done all at once where people order their picks, that would be the result I think we're trying to get here. Like voting for awards. People give first place, second place votes etc..

I look at like we all have a list of where we think prospects are, if we combined those lists, what would the rankings be? Voting for players multiple times skews that.

If I understand what you're saying, even though you think Ortio is the best prospect on your list, he will NEVER get your vote again because you had him slotted at #3 and we're past that. That doesn't sound right to me at all.

[Jebus]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The way this played out I was voting for Granlund for 3 rounds.

Now There is Klimchuck, Rienhart, Wootherspoon, and Sieloff and maybe Ortio/Gillies or MacDonald (I don't have any idea how goalies will turn out)

Klimchuck might end up being a player BUT he will be fortunate to get any NHL games this year. As a small forward he is behind Gaudreau, Hudler, Raymond, Byron, Granlund, and Baertschi.

Rienhart will see some NHL time ... he has done as well as can be expected in his 19 NHL games to date. He has also shown that he is a top player at the AHL level. When the Flames signed Byron they took away his NHL spot.

Wootherspoon has progressed nicely. He blew past Breen as the Flames top D prospect last year. He has a chance to make the Flames and be on the opening day roster if not in the lineup.

However Sieloff was going to be playing 20-40 games with the Flames last year.

All things being even (no freak injuries) he will be in the starting 2015-16 line-up so that makes him the best prospect at this point.

I see him as lower risk and very high upside compared to Baertschi and Poirier. Poirier might be the real deal but has to show where he stacks up against NHL players.

I will probably be voting for Sieloff for the next 3 to 5 rounds

Well said, can't argue with your thinking here Ricardodw. For me, Seiloff's injury is what drops him down the rankings in the summer of 2014. I think one of the biggest storylines heading into camp is how far has he come in recovery? Is he back to where he was when he was all but promised time with the big club?

Wotherspoon (my vote) on the other hand was not made any such promise and earned his way up when opportunity presented itself. Wotherspoon has impressed me with how quickly he has pushed himself to the front of the pack and I don't see any reason he would take a step back. Having Seiloff on the Heat could very well provide the right motivation for him to push even more to establish that he should get the first call up.

So the battle at the top of the defensive prospect rankings should be a good one this year.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by fotze

You are not making sense to me on this and you usually do.

I'm looking at it like we all got one piece of paper with a list of all prospects. We all order them according to our preference 1 to whatever, and then turn in those lists. The results are tallied and what you get is the board's overall view of the prospects. I don't think the mods can organize a poll in this manner (maybe they can I don't know), and so this is what we have.

IE if you think Theissen is our best prospect, but most other people think he is the worst. You go through this entire process voting for one guy each time? That member's voting capability has been skewed because he hasn't ranked people (like the title suggests) just been trying to push his favorite prospect up the list. If you think he's first grgeat. He gets your one first place vote and you move on to who you think is 2nd place.

I think that gives a more accurate depiction of the overall consensus.

[FlameZilla]

Klimchuk for the second round in a row.

It will be interesting to see where Jankowski slots in on this poll. He's such an unknown commodity that it's tough to place him. I'm factoring potential ceiling and likelihood to reach potential into these rankings, so I have to think Jankowski pops up somewhere after Wotherspoon/Sieloff/Reinhart/Ortio/Gillies/McDonald... Is it possible that he's not even one of our top 10 prospects?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Joe Nieuwendyk

If I understand what you're saying, even though you think Ortio is the best prospect on your list, he will NEVER get your vote again because you had him slotted at #3 and we're past that. That doesn't sound right to me at all.

Yes I think he's number 3, so I vote him at number 3. I don't think he's number 4, I voted my number 4 player there. If I was to continue to vote Ortio its disingenous because he doesn't deserve more than the one vote that everyone else should be getting. Why should Ortio get 6-10 of my votes?

Like I said, I look at like we all got one list, cast our votes, and the tally is what gives us the rankings.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I'm looking at it like we all got one piece of paper with a list of all prospects. We all order them according to our preference 1 to whatever, and then turn in those lists. The results are tallied and what you get is the board's overall view of the prospects. I don't think the mods can organize a poll in this manner (maybe they can I don't know), and so this is what we have.

IE if you think Theissen is our best prospect, but most other people think he is the worst. You go through this entire process voting for one guy each time? That member's voting capability has been skewed because he hasn't ranked people (like the title suggests) just been trying to push his favorite prospect up the list. If you think he's first grgeat. He gets your one first place vote and you move on to who you think is 2nd place.

I think that gives a more accurate depiction of the overall consensus.

Not everyone can decisively just form a big ranking list of all our prospects.

Bennett, Gaudreau and even Sven were pretty obvious, but it becomes a crapshoot after that. I like the format Bingo is using because it helps with posters who are indecisive (me) about who fits where, past a certain threshold.

If what you're suggesting was implemented, like a points system with #1 getting the most, #30 getting a single point etc, I feel that'd be much more likely to result in a mixed up hodgepodge of middle dwellers with still no real distinguished ranking rather than the clean process of elimination we're using currently.

[Read Only]

Went with Wotherspoon again but it is really close with Klimchuk. I have both those guys ahead of Granlund so whoever wins this round is certainly deserving and it seems likely the other guy go next.

[Joe Nieuwendyk]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Why should Ortio get 6-10 of my votes?

He doesn't get 6-10 votes because each poll is completely independent. This would only be a problem if, at the end of round 30, ALL of the results were added together. In that case, Ortio's 10 votes would outweigh Gaudreau's one vote and there would definitely be a skew. But that's not the case at all.

[Bingo]

I think a guy comes off the list, you look at the list -1 player and pick the best prospect available.

If you think Rafikov is the best Flames prospect you keep pushing him until he's gone because he's still the best as the list dwindles.

I think this works because people that want Gillies are supporting him round after round, and will be a factor when he goes say 7 instead of 8 or 9.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Wotherspoon in a close race with Arnold and Klimchuk. Jankowski is also creeping into the mix here.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Not everyone can decisively just form a big ranking list of all our prospects.

Bennett, Gaudreau and even Sven were pretty obvious, but it becomes a crapshoot after that. I like the format Bingo is using because it helps with posters who are indecisive (me) about who fits where, past a certain threshold.

If what you're suggesting was implemented, like a points system with #1 getting the most, #30 getting a single point etc, I feel that'd be much more likely to result in a mixed up hodgepodge of middle dwellers with still no real distinguished ranking rather than the clean process of elimination we're using currently.

No I'm just suggesting that everyone gets one vote per player. You put that player where you think they slot according to whatever your opinion is and that was your vote for that player. If some players get multiple votes and others don't, it's an unfair process, statistically. Plus then I don't get to see how my own personal list turns out because I voted one guy the whole time.

I guess I look at like if each scout submitted a list of players and then Treliving ranked them according to amount of 1st place, second place, third place votes (no points to each level, just the total amount of votes), what type of list would he have? Would it not be a general prospect ranking? A guy wouldn't be able to vote for any player multiple times, each player only has 1 rank.

[cannon7]

The ranking is too forward heavy, IMO. We have two elite goaltending prospects in Gillies and Ortio -- they should be a toss-up for top five on our rankings.

I like Wotherspoon, but I think he tops out as a #4-5. A very solid one and our best D prospect. But I don't put him ahead of Ortio/Gillies.

You might say D is our weakest position in the system, but we have a lot of underrated guys like Roy, Culkin, etc. Some great puck-movers.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Yes I think he's number 3, so I vote him at number 3. I don't think he's number 4, I voted my number 4 player there. If I was to continue to vote Ortio its disingenous because he doesn't deserve more than the one vote that everyone else should be getting. Why should Ortio get 6-10 of my votes?

Like I said, I look at like we all got one list, cast our votes, and the tally is what gives us the rankings.

I understand where you're coming from but it doesn't quite make sense given the structure of the polls.

You voted Ortio third, which is fine, but if you're going to continue on with your list you're skipping over players like Baertschi as he was removed third.

The poll is obviously designed to pick the best prospect, however you judge it, out of the remaining prospects. That should mean picking a player until he is removed (or possibly changing your mind).

[MrMastodonFarm]

In the 15+ years of doing these summer polls, I think you're the only poster who has ever looked at voting that way, MattyC.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by New Era

Wotherspoon in a close race with Arnold and Klimchuk. Jankowski is also creeping into the mix here.

I have Gillies and Ortio before Janko. I have Janko outside the top 10, and I think that shows how deep our prospect pool is than what it was a few years ago.

[SportsJunky]

It was between Reinhart and Wotherspoon and it was very close but I went with Reinhart. He may not have the upside of some forwards but I think he has the game to be a solid top 9 guy in the NHL and there's nothing wrong with that.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Joe Nieuwendyk

He doesn't get 6-10 votes because each poll is completely independent. This would only be a problem if, at the end of round 30, ALL of the results were added together. In that case, Ortio's 10 votes would outweigh Gaudreau's one vote and there would definitely be a skew. But that's not the case at all.

But that IS what is happening. Yes the votes are separate, but at the end we are going end up with a final list of 1-30 by combining the results. And If I voted Gaudreau, Bennet, Ortio, Ortio, Ortio... that player has more of my votes than other players do. I could spend the whole process voting for one player. That's not a fair ranking system IMO.

But I'm obviously in the minority here, so I'll drop it. I am going to keep voting this way though.

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

In the 15+ years of doing these summer polls, I think you're the only poster who has ever looked at voting that way, MattyC.

I'm a revolutionary, man.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by MattyC

But that IS what is happening. Yes the votes are separate, but at the end we are going end up with a final list of 1-30 by combining the results. And If I voted Gaudreau, Bennet, Ortio, Ortio, Ortio... that player has more of my votes than other players do. I could spend the whole process voting for one player. That's not a fair ranking system IMO.

But I'm obviously in the minority here, so I'll drop it. I am going to keep voting this way though.

No we aren't. The list in the first post is the list that's being made. Gaudreau is number 1, Bennett is 2, etc. etc.

[Wood]

Can't go wrong with any of the options here, Klimchuk is definitely the most exciting option

I'm showing some support for Ortio with this vote, he's looking like he has the ability to be a legit #1