Summer 2014 Prospect Ranking Poll Rd2

[Yrebmi]

I also went with Baertschi albeit with some misgivings. I would really have liked to get some feedback on him from this recent prospect camp that Gaudreau so thoroughly dominated. I hoped Sven would impress.
I might agree with what so many of you are saying that Bennett has more value to the organization than Sven, but Sam is going to win in a land slide anyway and figured the former could use some love.

[fastpuck]

I think we sometimes jump on the bandwagon of the shiny new player. If we compared two years of stats in the whl/ohl Baertschi puts up quite a few more points, but is less physical. He was probable older but then also had to make an adjustment after coming from Europe. We don't know how Bennett will adjust to the bigger faster game, or how he matures. Sven had a difficult time when reality hit, but he might do great this year. Too early to write him off, and to early to call Bennett the next greatstar.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Yrebmi

I also went with Baertschi albeit with some misgivings. I would really have liked to get some feedback on him from this recent prospect camp that Gaudreau so thoroughly dominated. I hoped Sven would impress.
I might agree with what so many of you are saying that Bennett has more value to the organization than Sven, but Sam is going to win in a land slide anyway and figured the former could use some love.

I don't think Sven was even at the development camp?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by fastpuck

...Too early to write him off, and to early to call Bennett the next greatstar.

These are extreme descriptions of what is actually going on, in my opinion. Both are great prospects, but it shouldn't surprise anyone to see that the earlier draft pick, with the better production in his draft year and at a younger age, who also plays centre as opposed to on the wing rank higher than the other.

[kermitology]

Bennett without a doubt right now.

It's going to get a bit more murky beyond this though.

[Clever_Iggy]

Bennett easily for me as he was neck and neck with Gaudreau for #1.

Round 3 gets interesting. Poirier, Grandlund, Baertschi, Ortio, Gillies, and Wotherspoon will all be in the mix (in my head anyways).

[Read Only]

Bennett should have won round 1 and is an obvious no doubter on this one. With Gaudreau in round 1 I could see an argument trying to be made even if I thought it was ridiculous but here I haven't seen anything close to a reasonable argument for anyone to be voted for ahead of Bennett.

Baertschi is the closest and even that is a huge stretch to have him ranked ahead if Bennett.

[nik-]

Voted Bennett, but Baertschi is the definite #3 in my mind. This is in terms of ceiling obviously, not closeness to the show.

[Drury18]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think it should be a rule here that everyone who does not select Bennett in this poll is required to include a post that effectively validates their choice.

Granlund

Again, as I said in the last thread, Granlund is ahead of many of our prospects in both skill and NHL readiness. He passed Baertschi easily and he has to be considered near the top of the list now, however many won't as they don't really understand who he is or his game. A month ago we were discussing Bennett's inability to do a pull up and whether that lead to issues with attitude or fitness. Now everyone is gushing over him as one of our future savoir's of the team?

Meanwhile, here is Markus Granlund. In a partial season cut short due to injury, he was at the top or near the top of AHL rookie scoring most of the season, he made an immediate impact in scoring when called up to Calgary and he looked like the most dangerous player on the ice consistently with both the Heat and Flames. During the time he missed with Abbotsford, he was sorely missed. He is an excellent skater, has a great shot, very smart with the puck and making other teams defence look foolish and can play against men and win the battles. He wasn't getting pushed around. As I said in the last thread, his development hit fast forward last season and there seemed to be nothing Granlund couldn't do. Had it not been for his shoulder injury, I do believe there would not be a "Is he starting in Calgary" discussion, it would have been almost set he will be in the starting lineup. I think he makes the team out of camp and becomes a Calder candidate since he has shown to be a very consistent player so far and could play on the 2nd or 3rd line already.

Bennett is too new of a prospect to start saying he's the #1 or #2 prospect in the system. We aren't the Edmonton Oilers here, and throwing the #1 or #2 on a prospect that's been in our system all of 15 minutes is very Oiler like.

[RyZ]

I picked Bennett and will be going with Sven tomorrow but it's all a matter of parameters, which are different for everybody when the question is simply "Who is the best prospect". Overall career, when in mid-late 20's, I think Bennett is the easy answer. However, if you put Bennett and Sven in the NHL next season, each with top 6 linemates and powerplay time, I think Sven would put up more points/be more effective in general.

It's all in the personal parameters, which is what going to make things really interesting in the 5-15 range.

[Savvy27]

Went with Bennett, though I had some hesitation because a lot of it is based on faith in the scouting reports. After watching him in the development camp I have some reservations, but people who have watched him for years believe he will be a star player so I'm going to enjoy the fact that us fans have a top guy to watch develop.

[King Theo]

I think everyone looks at this a little different, but that would have been the case last year too. As long as you pick the best prospect to you.
I think it is a mix of how soon they can be in the NHL and also how good they will be when they get there.
I picked Bennett at #2 over Baertschi because in a few years Sam will be a better player, but I do think Baertchi will be in the NHL sooner.

[Read Only]

Originally Posted by Drury18

Bennett is too new of a prospect to start saying he's the #1 or #2 prospect in the system. We aren't the Edmonton Oilers here, and throwing the #1 or #2 on a prospect that's been in our system all of 15 minutes is very Oiler like.

How new a prospect is should have 0 bearing on where he ranks. It isn't like Bennett is a mid round pick that is passing guys because he was drafted in 2014 he is arguably the best player at the time of the draft the Flames have ever picked.

It was a small same size but I wasn't impressed with Granlund during his time with the Flames. He looked small and very weak to me. I thought Reinhart looked much more ready and better suited for the NHL game, but it was a small sample size as mentioned so perhaps just a bad 7 games for Granlund.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Drury18

...Bennett is too new of a prospect to start saying he's the #1 or #2 prospect in the system. We aren't the Edmonton Oilers here, and throwing the #1 or #2 on a prospect that's been in our system all of 15 minutes is very Oiler like.

Not at all. If we were "very Oiler like," then we would not be just content to rank our newest, highest ever drafted prospect in franchise history as the best in the system, we would all be projecting him into the lineup for next season and expecting an infusion of high octane offence to follow. If Bennett has the potential to be the best player out of the current crop of Flames prospects, then he should be regarded as their top prospect. I don't think any of even his biggest boosters expects that to happen tomorrow.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Read Only

It was a small same size but I wasn't impressed with Granlund during his time with the Flames. He looked small and very weak to me. I thought Reinhart looked much more ready and better suited for the NHL game, but it was a small sample size as mentioned so perhaps just a bad 7 games for Granlund.

This is exactly why I'm struggling to go Granlund at #3.

As impressive as he was in his 1st year of pro, he looked too weak at the NHL level. While Baertschi is listed as being an inch shorter, I find he plays a much bigger game than Granlund did in his limited games with the Flames.

[Erick Estrada]

Round 3 should make for better conversation as there's really not much debate here.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by fastpuck

I chose Baertschi. He has a ton of skill, can dominate games even at the NHL level. He had a real difficult growing up year last year and I think will rebound and regroup. He may start in Adirondack but will push for a main camp rooster spot. I think Bennett has great skills, and like Sven, is dominating his league. I think he will stay in Juniors. He will be a better two way forward, but Sven will have a higher offensive game.

Svne has dominated games at the NHL level? Sven is dominating his league? He didn't look very dominating in the AHL last season.


Very unlikely Sven out produces Bennett in the NHL.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by fastpuck

I think we sometimes jump on the bandwagon of the shiny new player. If we compared two years of stats in the whl/ohl Baertschi puts up quite a few more points, but is less physical. He was probable older but then also had to make an adjustment after coming from Europe. We don't know how Bennett will adjust to the bigger faster game, or how he matures. Sven had a difficult time when reality hit, but he might do great this year. Too early to write him off, and to early to call Bennett the next greatstar.

Bennett was the best player on his team by quite a bit. Sven had another good player (Rattie) to play with.

[Drury18]

Originally Posted by Read Only

How new a prospect is should have 0 bearing on where he ranks. It isn't like Bennett is a mid round pick that is passing guys because he was drafted in 2014 he is arguably the best player at the time of the draft the Flames have ever picked.

I disagree. It should have alot of bearing on how they are ranked because at this time, we are basing his play on how he plays at a Junior level against kids who are still developing both skill and body size. This is not an indicator how well they will do against men and at a higher level.

I can name a number of players that the Flames selected (and even other teams) in previous drafts with high picks that did not play up to where it was projected. They looked great in Juniors, never panned out in the NHL. Patrick Stefan, Rick DiPietro, Alexandre Daigle,

For a Flames example:

2008 - Greg Nemisz was our first round pick. Lance Bouma was a 3rd rounder, TJ Brodie was our 4th rounder. In two years, Brodie blew both of them away as a top prospect. Nemisz is playing in the AHL struggling for an NHL spot.

2009 - Tim Erixon was our first rounder, Ryan Howse was our 2nd rounder. Joni Ortio was our 6th rounder. Not going to beat the dead horse here.

2010 - Max Reinhart was a 3rd rounder, John Ramage and Bill Arnold were 4th rounders, Michael Ferland a 5th rounder. The 2010 draft was considered a "weaker" one by most Flames fans. It's also possible that this draft where we only chose later will produce 3 NHL players.

2011 - Sven was our 1st rounder, Granlund and Wotherspoon our 2nd rounder, Gaudreau was the 4th rounder. Gaudreau just won the top prospect vote in 3 years over our first rounder Sven who is also being beat out by someone drafted this year.

Point being? Draft position really doesn't mean alot and shouldn't have a bearing where we rank prospects. We should be looking at skill set and what they have done at a more comparable level. OHL hockey is not comparable to NHL hockey.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

No.
But to repeat, it's neither his skill nor his game that needs developing.
I might/would have him play in the AHL, were it possible.

And what would stop him from getting punked in the AHL? He would still be too small and weak to compete against some 25 year old who would gain recognition by smacking Bennett around in response to Bennett's cross-check.

Difference between Gaudreau and Bennett?? I do not expect Gaudreau to cross-check anyone and I see Bennett doing so on at least a semi-regular basis.

Gaudreau does not gain anything by adding 10-15 lbs.... he still will be a smart car as far as collisions go.

Bennett plays a demolition derby kind of game so he requires significant substance... He probably does not have the pure skill to play a Gaudreau style game... much in the same way that Toews does not have the skill to play a Patrick Kane style game.

How do we know that Bennett's speed (and skill generated off off his speed) holds up with the extra weight?


Iginla , after his best year -- 2004 dropped 10-15 pounds of muscle to be faster and more agile.