What Was the Worst Signing Today?

[GreenLantern]

I think the OP should update his post because the Richards deal just trumped Ehrhoff's signing..

[Daradon]

Pouliot!

[Read Only]

Is it too late to add Niskanen?

[19Yzerman19]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Your responses are often abrasive and basically strongly suggest that if someone doesn't share your opinion it is simply too hard to believe.

Some peoples' hockey opinions are pretty damned unbelievable, and are often expressed as if they were obvious.

I mean - and I suspect this has something to do with your view here - I pretty assertively disagreed with you about Stralman as a hockey player, because your perspective was essentially the opposite of what I perceive to be reality. In doing so, I attacked your idea rather than you, and supported mine with an argument and some evidence. That seems to me to be a much more positive contribution to the discourse than someone just spouting off without any basis for or knowledge of what they speak, even if they do so in a pleasant and cheerleader-like manner.

I mean, if you were having a conversation about, say, the benefits of living in Calgary vs. Winnipeg, and someone chimed in "but Winnipeg is larger and warmer than Calgary", would your reaction not be something along the lines of a shocked "what the hell are you even talking about?"

[19Yzerman19]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

I think the OP should update his post because the Richards deal just trumped Ehrhoff's signing..

No, I think the Richards thing was a worthwhile shot to take by the Hawks but Ehrhoff is legitimately a top 2 defender who consistently pushes the play in the right direction. I'm not convinced Richards can still contribute very much.

Originally Posted by Read Only

Is it too late to add Niskanen?

It is not. I added it although I actually don't think it's that bad, in that it's obviously an overpayment for a long period of time but it's not THAT much of an overpayment. Maybe 20%. Although you could argue the term compounds that.

Maybe it's just because I was expecting some idiot to give him 6.5 AAV somewhere.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19

Some peoples' hockey opinions are pretty damned unbelievable, and are often expressed as if they were obvious.

I mean - and I suspect this has something to do with your view here - I pretty assertively disagreed with you about Stralman as a hockey player, because your perspective was essentially the opposite of what I perceive to be reality. In doing so, I attacked your idea rather than you, and supported mine with an argument and some evidence. That seems to me to be a much more positive contribution to the discourse than someone just spouting off without any basis for or knowledge of what they speak, even if they do so in a pleasant and cheerleader-like manner.

I mean, if you were having a conversation about, say, the benefits of living in Calgary vs. Winnipeg, and someone chimed in "but Winnipeg is larger and warmer than Calgary", would your reaction not be something along the lines of a shocked "what the hell are you even talking about?"

Your exchange with me is just one example of where you take an abrasive position with posters.

I'm trying to give you some advice here because if you continue with how you post currently - it will be dealt with in other ways. You have good things to say - just think about changing how you say them.

With that I've de-railed this thread enough. Sorry folks .

[jesters91]

Orpik (5 x 5.5) is hard to fathom even when today is over-payment day.

[Split98]

Unless you're a cap team, salary really means absolutely nothing to the fans. Only term does, and even then it only matters if that player fails to fill a role on the team.

So personally, I don't think that Engelland deal really has any part of these lists.

[dammage79]

Orpik is still the worst, But Niskanen is right up there for sure.

[BigTuna]

Niskanan, then Orpik, then Bolland.

[Chill Cosby]

Engelland couldn't be the worst I don't think. Seems weird to be included. Flames have plenty of room and need that type of player. Bad deal on other teams but good for the Flames. Term or dollars don't hurt.

Orpik deal seems rough.
NJ might regret the Cammy deal in last years of the deal.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by jesters91

Orpik (5 x 5.5) is hard to fathom even when today is over-payment day.

And people on here laughed when I said Dion would get 7 million as UFA.

[RyZ]

Orpik or Niskanen. Washington screwed themselves today. That organisation is going nowhere fast.

[Read Only]

Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19

It is not. I added it although I actually don't think it's that bad, in that it's obviously an overpayment for a long period of time but it's not THAT much of an overpayment. Maybe 20%. Although you could argue the term compounds that.

Maybe it's just because I was expecting some idiot to give him 6.5 AAV somewhere.

If you get 46 point Niskanen from last year I think it is still too long but not terrible but if he goes back to his play previous to last year I think that is a terrible deal.

[19Yzerman19]

For everyone saying that it won't hurt Calgary to sign Engelland to that deal, you may be right. But whether or not a bad contract has any practical impact on the team does not cause it to cease being a bad contract.

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Your exchange with me is just one example of where you take an abrasive position with posters. I'm trying to give you some advice here because if you continue with how you post currently - it will be dealt with in other ways. You have good things to say - just think about changing how you say them.

And I do appreciate that. I have some frustration on this point though, because while this board is actually a pretty good place to talk about hockey in comparison to some of the other alternatives out there, there is obvious Flames homerism (which is to be expected) and groupthink, which create a mob mentality that is much more aggressive in suppressing minority opinions and dissent than anything one poster could muster.

In other words, in order to actually challenge any of the trite, overly simplistic, traditional and often wrong perspectives on hockey that arise in discussions with any group of hockey fans (especially casual ones who hear it from talking heads), "I'm sorry but I believe you're mistaken" doesn't really seem to get through. Without strenuous objection to conventional thinking there isn't a discourse. With it, we can come to a better understanding. I believe that any attempt to stifle that by encouraging everyone to put on the kid gloves is doing a disservice to the quality of hockey discussion on here. There's a line, obviously, but I think the forum rules in saying "attack the idea, not the person" supply that line.

I would prefer an energized lively debate with strong opinions in which people posit their views assertively to a lot of everyone agreeing about everything, challenging nothing and foregoing any real debate as to whether or not the conventional view makes any actual sense. This is just my opinion, and of no practical consequence given that I'm just a member... except that I would hope you would consider it as an alternative perspective on what makes for a good discussion board from someone who has also moderated a pretty big one since about 2006. Or at least, hope you see where I'm coming from.

[CSharp]

Who was it on Sportsnet said Niskanen came on strong with the Pens last season playing with Crosby. However, he's not a star and should not be paid as a star. Anyone playing with Crosby and Malkin will look good while the team is winning. $5mil+ AAV for 7 years totally an overpayment, IMO. If Niskanen can improve Ovechkin's +/- from last season, it'd be a miracle.

[Kickazzflames]

Now:

Niskanen
Orpik
Bolland
Pouliot
Stoner

Engelland doesn't seem bad at all anymore the more I look at it. Overpay to hit cap floor, overpay to match bid war, over pay for a character guy who is big and tough. And now they have the flexibility to move wideman or hudler at trade deadline or before without fear of cap floor.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

And people on here laughed when I said Dion would get 7 million as UFA.

People are laughing at the Orpik, Engelland, etc... deals because they are overpaid, as is Phaneuf. Personally id rather other teams, other than the one I'm cheering for, overpay for players.

You are probably right, someone else probably would have overpaid for Phaneuf on July 1st, but the Leafs overpaid for him first so nobody else got a chance.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Pouliot. 5 years for that? Good job Mac T, you really scooped everyone on that signing.

[19Yzerman19]

Yeah I added Stoner, I again don't think it's quite as bad as some others because if it was 2.5 for 3 years I would basically just say "meh", but he's just not very good at hockey.