[News] Baertschi at the World Championships. UPD: Broken rib. out for the tourney

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by King Theo

I don't like all of the hate for Baertschi there was a grand total of 6 players drafted after him that have played more games in the NHL. He just needs more time. This was Backlund's first really good season.

Round Pick Team Name Pos Games
1 15 NY Rangers J.T. Miller L 56
2 37 Columbus Boone Jenner C 72
2 43 Chicago Brandon Saad L 126
2 47 San Jose Matthew Nieto F 66
5 139 Chicago Andrew Shaw C 165
7 208 Tampa Bay Ondrej Palat L 95

The coming year is the telling point where the draft class of 2011 has had their 2 years Jrs and one year in the AHL and this year is their first realistic chance to become an NHL regular. The best D-men from that draft will be looking at their first chance to be in the NHL this coming season.... a lot got their first NHl look in 2013-14.

Baertschi (#13) had played more NHL games than Schieffle (#7) going into this year 25 to 11. and has played 124 pro games to Schieffle's 74.

Schieffle is a top 2 centre on basically any NHL team and Baertschi is........???

I really thought that after the first year that Baertschi and Schieffle were exactly equal and that the Flames had basically got a top 7 pick with #13.


Baertschi and Backlund turning pro rather than 2 years in Jr after being drafted hurt them. Granlund had the extra year playing before going pro and has passed Baertschi.

These smaller skilled guys need time to grow and not have their confidence shot by being the weakest guy on the ice.

They get to see how strong and fit the players are at the NHL level at training camp and exhibition games and can go back and dominate Juniors for a couple years.

Not a lot of benefit getting pushed around in the AHL as 20 year olds as compared to being dominate 20 year olds in juniors.

I didn't see it at the time but Baertschi not being interested and totally dominating at the Pendicton Youngs Stars tourney was a huge sign that things were going wrong.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Schieffle is a top 2 centre on basically any NHL team and Baertschi is........???

.

Is Schiefele top 2 center at this point in time just like Lack is, what was it top 10 or 20 goalie in NHL?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Is Schiefele top 2 center at this point in time just like Lack is, what was it top 10 or 20 goalie in NHL?

Nope. Scheiffele was breaking out this season, much like Johansen did for CBJ. WPG's playoff hopes went downhill when he was lost to injury. Not comparable at all, every team would love to add Scheiffele, big upside there.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The coming year is the telling point where the draft class of 2011 has had their 2 years Jrs and one year in the AHL and this year is their first realistic chance to become an NHL regular. The best D-men from that draft will be looking at their first chance to be in the NHL this coming season.... a lot got their first NHl look in 2013-14.

Baertschi (#13) had played more NHL games than Schieffle (#7) going into this year 25 to 11. and has played 124 pro games to Schieffle's 74.

Schieffle is a top 2 centre on basically any NHL team and Baertschi is........???

I really thought that after the first year that Baertschi and Schieffle were exactly equal and that the Flames had basically got a top 7 pick with #13.


Baertschi and Backlund turning pro rather than 2 years in Jr after being drafted hurt them. Granlund had the extra year playing before going pro and has passed Baertschi.

These smaller skilled guys need time to grow and not have their confidence shot by being the weakest guy on the ice.

They get to see how strong and fit the players are at the NHL level at training camp and exhibition games and can go back and dominate Juniors for a couple years.

Not a lot of benefit getting pushed around in the AHL as 20 year olds as compared to being dominate 20 year olds in juniors.

I didn't see it at the time but Baertschi not being interested and totally dominating at the Pendicton Youngs Stars tourney was a huge sign that things were going wrong.

Baertschi was a late birthday and drafted a season later than most players. Very rarely does a drafted player go back and play an overage season. Its a similar situation to Poirier this year, he'll sign and play in the AHL because he was drafted at an older age than Klimchuk despite being drafted in the same year. They'll both have four junior eligible seasons, its just that Poirier was drafted after his third and Klimchuk was picked after his second year because junior has a cut-off date of Dec 31 while the NHL is September 15th.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Nope. Scheiffele was breaking out this season, much like Johansen did for CBJ. WPG's playoff hopes went downhill when he was lost to injury. Not comparable at all, every team would love to add Scheiffele, big upside there.

I'm not questioning his upside, he will be excellent player.
But at this point he is not, tomorrow he could be.
Is he better than Sven, looks like it but so what.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by theoforever

I'm not questioning his upside, he will be excellent player.
But at this point he is not, tomorrow he could be.
Is he better than Sven, looks like it but so what.

Huh? I'd trade Sven for him in an instant. He got better and better his rookie year and should be a top two line centre from here on out. Not really sure what you're getting at. He isn't comparable to Eddie Lack at all.

[SeanCharles]

A 21 year old struggling yet still averaging approx. 0.5 ppg at the NHL level is nothing to panic over...

I'm pretty excited to watch Sven, Gaudreau, Backlund and Monahan at the WHC.

If Brodie was healthy enough to go this tournament would feature our top 5 youngsters!

[formulate]

Hoping Sven has his breakout year like Johansen, Granlund and Schwartz did this year a s 2010 picks. It will be exciting to see our guys go head to heas!

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Huh? I'd trade Sven for him in an instant. He got better and better his rookie year and should be a top two line centre from here on out. Not really sure what you're getting at. He isn't comparable to Eddie Lack at all.

Statement was made that this kid is a top 2 center in Nhl.
He has limited number of games in Nhl.
Lots of players that are better at
this point. Tomorrow he could be, but he is not NOW.

People make statements about unproven players and put them ahead of established players just on promise that one they....
Let them proove it first.

By the same talking Backs is better than Monahan and this kid, right now.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Baertschi was a late birthday and drafted a season later than most players. Very rarely does a drafted player go back and play an overage season. Its a similar situation to Poirier this year, he'll sign and play in the AHL because he was drafted at an older age than Klimchuk despite being drafted in the same year. They'll both have four junior eligible seasons, its just that Poirier was drafted after his third and Klimchuk was picked after his second year because junior has a cut-off date of Dec 31 while the NHL is September 15th.

My point being was Baertschi was the weakest player on the ice his first pro year..... as was Backlund. They could have gone back and played one more year as a Junior.

Ferland was just awful his first attempt at a pro and got to go back to junior for another year..his 4th year in the CHL.. There is a good chance that he would be playing in Europe or the ECHL if the Flames would have kept him up for the whole year after his 3 years in Jr.

Poirier will be 20 on Dec 14.... does this mean he can not go back an play Junior?

If he is junior eligible I would say that he would be better served going back and dominating Juniors rather than getting physically intimidated as a 20 year old pro. And don't say that he has nothing left to prove as a Junior..... He was looked at and left off of team Canada under 20 year old team.


Brayden Schenn.... no slouch him, got drafted #5 in 2009 and then played his 3rd AND 4th years in the CHL ....

Were Baertschi and Backlund any better them him as a junior that they had to go pro a year before him?

I think a lot of the high draft picks are just forced into playing pro so the GM can show he is doing something right.

Waiting 2 years for a player is likely better for the player but the GM is liable to be fired by the time he shows that he made a wise pick.

Backlund was brought in early because Sutter was going to get fired.... Baertschi because Feaster job time was running out.

Do you think Brodie's development was hurt by playing in the CHL as a 20 year old?

[saillias]

To be fair Poirier right now is stronger/bigger than Baertschi or Backlund were at the same age. Even if he wasn't you can't make sweeping generalizations about prospects based on 2 guys.

And there is no GM job's on the line this time, so him playing pro isn't a rush job. It's just the next step in his playing career.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Statement was made that this kid is a top 2 center in Nhl.
He has limited number of games in Nhl.
Lots of players that are better at
this point. Tomorrow he could be, but he is not NOW.

People make statements about unproven players and put them ahead of established players just on promise that one they....
Let them proove it first.

By the same talking Backs is better than Monahan and this kid, right now.

You are doing it wrong.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

You are doing it wrong.

What part, the trolling or the fact that every young guy should prove that he is better than the veteran before he is put on the pedestal as the greatest?

That's the problem these days with society, everything new and shinny is good, and kids expect things to be handed to them instead of having to prove themselves first.

[JohnnyHockey]

I'm sorry but I really think a lot of people on here are far to biased. Look at Sven's game this year. Wasn't good enough for the Flames lineup (2 goals in 26 games). He was then sent down to the Heat, correct move by management IMO as he is still young. However if he is the player that almost everyone on CP thinks he is, he should have immediately dominated in the AHL. Instead he was invisible for his first dozen (give or take) games.

Let me guess, this post is going to have instant comments on how Sven needed confidence. Confidence, confidence, confidence, this is always brought up when anyone is talking about Sven. This guy must have the morale of a 12 year old girl.

I know this is harsh, but IMO people have put Sven on far to high of a pedestal. He has been outplayed by many of our other prospects and I wouldn't be opposed to seeing him packaged and dealt.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by JohnnyHockey

I'm sorry but I really think a lot of people on here are far to biased. Look at Sven's game this year. Wasn't good enough for the Flames lineup (2 goals in 26 games). He was then sent down to the Heat, correct move by management IMO as he is still young. However if he is the player that almost everyone on CP thinks he is, he should have immediately dominated in the AHL. Instead he was invisible for his first dozen (give or take) games.

Let me guess, this post is going to have instant comments on how Sven needed confidence. Confidence, confidence, confidence, this is always brought up when anyone is talking about Sven. This guy must have the morale of a 12 year old girl.

I know this is harsh, but IMO people have put Sven on far to high of a pedestal. He has been outplayed by many of our other prospects and I wouldn't be opposed to seeing him packaged and dealt.

Sven needed confidence.

[bubbsy]

if backlund has shown me anything, it is that most prospects need time before they can translate their game to the NHL and have success doing so.

We need to let sven grow into the league, not throw him in and consider him a bust when there isn't immediate results/success.

If there is belief in his skill level, there is belief in his work ethic, then there needs to be some faith in his development.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by saillias

To be fair Poirier right now is stronger/bigger than Baertschi or Backlund were at the same age. Even if he wasn't you can't make sweeping generalizations about prospects based on 2 guys.

And there is no GM job's on the line this time, so him playing pro isn't a rush job. It's just the next step in his playing career.

And Ferland was bigger and stronger.

Poirier is not at all pro strong and not near where he will be when he is 21-22.

There is a reason there are no players in the NFL at age 20. Strength is more important in the NFL....

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

And Ferland was bigger and stronger.

Poirier is not at all pro strong and not near where he will be when he is 21-22.

There is a reason there are no players in the NFL at age 20. Strength is more important in the NFL....

More due to allowing the players to develop in college. I believe a player cannot enter the NFL draft until their junior year (or the year where they are 3 years out of high school).

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by the2bears

More due to allowing the players to develop in college. I believe a player cannot enter the NFL draft until their junior year (or the year where they are 3 years out of high school).

But there's a reason that's the rule

[jeffman]

Originally Posted by dying4acup

Niño still in playoffs for the wild likely has a lot to do with it.

Forgot all about el nino