Criticism hurled at Kane, Byfuglien, Subban &others is about race more than character

[stignasty]

Originally Posted by gargamel

They'd all still be criticized regardless of their race, but I'm always uncomfortable when people start referring to Emery and Kane as "thugs." There are plenty of white players who have fought an unwilling opponent, but are they called thugs, or just goons/dirty/cheapshot artists? White players like Patrick Kane have done a lot worse than pose with their money and get a silly haircut, but has he ever gotten the thug label, or is he just a jerk/immature kid?

[Richard] Sherman was asked if "thug," a word that was used often on message boards and social media to describe the Seahawks cornerback, bothers him more than any other term.

"The reason it bothers me is because it seems like it's an accepted way of calling somebody the N-word now," he said. "It's like everybody else said the N-word and then they say 'thug' and that's fine. It kind of takes me aback and it's kind of disappointing because they know."
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24417234

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by moon

AO got a lot of grief for his hot dogging antics (burning stick as an example).

The Canadian junior players were criticized for the jersey popping they did around 3-5 years ago after goals.

Is there another player that acts like Subban and gets away with it because they are white?

What exactly does Subban do that's so bad? Is he a headhunter? Is he going after guys' knees? Is he sticking people in the nards? Is he suckerpunching dudes? Hits from behind, how about that? Taking long runs at players that don't have the puck?

Oh right, he triple low fives his goalie and he enjoys a good celly. Give em Hell, PK.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by flamesfan1297

He's black?????

He's Muslim, so it's mostly the same.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by flamesfan1297

He's black?????

well he gets criticized a LOT so he must be, right?

[Ped]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

What exactly does Subban do that's so bad? Is he a headhunter? Is he going after guys' knees? Is he sticking people in the nards? Is he suckerpunching dudes? Hits from behind, how about that? Taking long runs at players that don't have the puck?

Oh right, he triple low fives his goalie and he enjoys a good celly. Give em Hell, PK.

Subban doesn't fit into the staid hockey world that most players do. He's probably one of the most passionate on-ice players I've ever seen, and it was extremely noticeable during his junior days.

Has nothing to do with his race and everything to do with his attitude, which is a shame, because his attitude is great imo.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Ped

Subban doesn't fit into the staid hockey world that most players do. He's probably one of the most passionate on-ice players I've ever seen, and it was extremely noticeable during his junior days.

Has nothing to do with his race and everything to do with his attitude, which is a shame, because his attitude is great imo.

Yeah, I really don't get all the hate for Subban. I agree that he has some defensive issues, but he is an exciting player.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yeah, I really don't get all the hate for Subban. I agree that he has some defensive issues, but he is an exciting player.

I think that's the point of the argument (which Proteau admittedly does a piss poor job of making) - a not insubstantial portion of the Subban dislike is motivated by race. And the reality of our time is, nobody admits to being racist anymore.

There's an old thread on CP that I will endeavor to find, after the whole Evander Kane stacks of cash in Vegas fiasco, where some dude posts Chris Rock's "Black people vs N******' bit. You can probably guess the intention behind that.

[calumniate]

When don cherry starts calling evander and pk 'good Canadian boys', we'll know we've turned a corner

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by calumniate

When don cherry starts calling evander and pk 'good Canadian boys', we'll know we've turned a corner

He's called Iginla that, does that count?

[GreenLantern2814]

Found it. Post #49. Note that the section of the video he refers to is literally 'N*****s love to keep it real. Real dumb'. There's some racism about when it comes to these guys.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...er+Kane&page=3

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

He's called Iginla that, does that count?

Nope, narrative doesn't fit.

[moon]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

What exactly does Subban do that's so bad? Is he a headhunter? Is he going after guys' knees? Is he sticking people in the nards? Is he suckerpunching dudes? Hits from behind, how about that? Taking long runs at players that don't have the puck?

Oh right, he triple low fives his goalie and he enjoys a good celly. Give em Hell, PK.

I don't think he should be booted from the game but his antics to me make him out to be a me first player that relies on some BS notion of enthusiasm to try and pass off selfish acts. His play on the ice including stupid pinches, fighting with teammates, over celebrating, the constant yaking at other guys are all things that I find make him look like a dick.

I also hate when AO acts like that, thought Yak's celebration was pathetic.

Enjoying a "good celly" looks stupid out there whether Subban or anyone else does it.

[moon]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Found it. Post #49. Note that the section of the video he refers to is literally 'N*****s love to keep it real. Real dumb'. There's some racism about when it comes to these guys.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...er+Kane&page=3

Why is that racist?

I remember people whining about it in that thread and still don't see why people think it is racist.

[calumniate]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

He's called Iginla that, does that count?

It sure does! In a way. My comment was a little off the cuff I admit

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by moon

I don't think he should be booted from the game but his antics to me make him out to be a me first player that relies on some BS notion of enthusiasm to try and pass off selfish acts. His play on the ice including stupid pinches, fighting with teammates, over celebrating, the constant yaking at other guys are all things that I find make him look like a dick.

I also hate when AO acts like that, thought Yak's celebration was pathetic.

Enjoying a "good celly" looks stupid out there whether Subban or anyone else does it.

The entire league yaks at each other. Just because Subban is better at it doesn't mean he's 'me first'. It means he's better at getting under the skin of his opposition. Which is what you want. I bet Chris Pronger talked all sorts of crap in his day.

His pinches are a space he can improve in. But keep in mind that the aggressiveness and exuberance that define his game have also gotten him to where he is. This recent few months aside, his defensive game has always been underrated. Jacques Martin was using him to kill penalties as a 20 year old raw rookie against the Penguins and the Capitals in the post season. They won both series. He can't be that horrific in his own end. If anything, his shortcomings defensively this year are the result of Therien not having a clue how to properly utilize anyone on his roster.

A 'me first' player scores twice in a 3-2 loss and goes home happy. Do you really think PK is happy as long as he's putting up his points? Everything I've seen from him indicates the exact opposite.

As for celebrations looking stupid... Okay? They look stupid when they're unnecessary. If you slide across centre ice when you're down 4-1 and you deflect a point shot, yeah that's dumb. If you're a rookie who just tied the game after having a goal called off against the champs, have your fun. It's not hurting anyone.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by moon

Why is that racist?

I remember people whining about it in that thread and still don't see why people think it is racist.

In that post, is Evander Kane being set up to fall on the 'black people' side or the n***** side? If it's the latter, the dude called him a n*****. Which part of that isn't racist?

Maybe it's just really insensitive or thoughtless. Is that better?

[moon]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

The entire league yaks at each other. Just because Subban is better at it doesn't mean he's 'me first'. It means he's better at getting under the skin of his opposition. Which is what you want. I bet Chris Pronger talked all sorts of crap in his day.

In what way is he better at it? I don't see him getting under the skin of others just him looking like a fool.

A 'me first' player scores twice in a 3-2 loss and goes home happy. Do you really think PK is happy as long as he's putting up his points? Everything I've seen from him indicates the exact opposite.

Yes I do.

Guys who hate to lose work on their games. Subban is as horrific in his own zone as he was when he came in. He still makes his stupid pinches and refuses to play smart when the situation dictates it.

As for celebrations looking stupid... Okay? They look stupid when they're unnecessary. If you slide across centre ice when you're down 4-1 and you deflect a point shot, yeah that's dumb. If you're a rookie who just tied the game after having a goal called off against the champs, have your fun. It's not hurting anyone.

I think they look stupid unless you win a big game and even then they can be a little much.

[moon]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

In that post, is Evander Kane being set up to fall on the 'black people' side or the n***** side? If it's the latter, the dude called him a n*****. Which part of that isn't racist?

Maybe it's just really insensitive or thoughtless. Is that better?

I thought he was saying his actions put him on the n****** side in the Chris Rock rant.

I don't really see it as insensitive or thoughtless just pointing out how some people don't see how stupid their actions are and have been taught by media/society etc. that that is how they should act or that is the cool way to act.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

Article by Adam Proteau in The Hockey News:
http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/cr...han-character/

Ray Emery is a thug because he intimidates old men on the highway and attacks unwilling opponents on the ice.

Byfuglin is lazy because he's a professional athlete that often lets himself go and gets drastically overweight and fat.

Kane gets critiqued because he does stupid #### and acts like a young entitled punk.

Subban, fair enough, not sure what he does, to deserve his wrap, but it also seemed to come from inside the dressing room.

P.Kane got his share of critique when he was a punk and beat up a cabby, Bertuzzi gets called a thug and there both white. Thinking there isn't much to this.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by moon

I thought he was saying his actions put him on the n****** side in the Chris Rock rant.

I don't really see it as insensitive or thoughtless just pointing out how some people don't see how stupid their actions are and have been taught by media/society etc. that that is how they should act or that is the cool way to act.

Ahhhh I see. So he's not a n*****, he's just acting like a n*****. My apologies, I don't know how I could have ever confused the message. Carry on.