630 CHED poll asks if rape victims are to blame, 35% prove people are still awful

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19

I understand it perfectly. However, if accepted, it will lead to girls wearing more and more conservative clothing. Which is why I said "this is why we can't have nice things". It's getting warmer out, and I think the girls of our fair city should take advantage of that, for, you know, not my vicarious enjoyment or anything, but just because. Yes.

I always found the "asking for it" argument sort of silly - no, girls, don't wear revealing outfits; as men, if we see you dressed like that we quite simply do not have the willpower to resist committing sexual assault. Seriously?

Not most men. But some sick individuals, yes.

[Thor]

I wish I could find it, but there was this feminist video where she said we can never eliminate rape because men are so often imagining women sexually in their mind and that this is a form of mental rape.

[Tinordi]

Men talking with men about men on the internet.

[Makarov]

The prevailing wisdom these days (at least in the criminal justice system) is that sexual assault is not generally motivated by sexual desire or appetite. It is motivated by offender's desire for power and desire to dominate or control or hurt the victim. As such, one would expect that the victim's fashion or lifestyle choices would have very little causal relationship with being assaulted.

[Imported_Aussie]

Originally Posted by Makarov

The prevailing wisdom these days (at least in the criminal justice system) is that sexual assault is not generally motivated by sexual desire or appetite. It is motivated by offender's desire for power and desire to dominate or control or hurt the victim. As such, one would expect that the victim's fashion or lifestyle choices would have very little causal relationship with being assaulted.

I think if we could end the thread on this, that would be perfect. Sums is up to a tee. Rape is about power and degradation, not lust

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Not most men. But some sick individuals, yes.

This is another common rape myth, that rape is perpetuated by "sickos." Hell, pylon tried to make a link between rapists and mental illness, which is so factually wrong and utterly ignorant that I hesitated to address it. That people with mental illnesses are often at greater risk for sexual assault makes it doubly offensive.

Anyways, I digress. There is no common denominator for rapists, other than "usually has a penis." You guys throwing out the halfway house and dude creeping in bushes imagery need to do a bit of research. When 1 out of 6 women are sexually assaulted by someone they know, I'd ask you just what exactly you'd expect them to do, other than just not having male acquaintances? The other edge of this sword is that women who do take this approach are admonished for categorizing all men as rapists. So really it's damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[Tinordi]

The vast majority (over 80%) of rape victims know the rapist. Are these women just hanging out with sickos and mental patients or with bros, boyfriends and other contemporaries of the male species who can't distinguish between rape, sexual assault, and a lewd story among the boys about that slut they nailed after a night out at the bar.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by rubecube

When 1 out of 6 women are sexually assaulted by someone they know

Originally Posted by Tinordi

The vast majority (over 80%) of rape victims know the rapist.

Which is the right number? Seems to be conflicting info.

[Tinordi]

No time to dig into the research I've reviewed on it right now. Will get back later this weekend.

[strombad]

73% according to this fancy little stat sheet:
https://www.rainn.org/get-informatio...ault-offenders

[firebug]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Which is the right number? Seems to be conflicting info.

Not really a conflict.

1 in 6 women are assaulted by someone they know, not 1 in 6 victims were assaulted by someone they know.

therefore if 80% of victims knew their assailant that would suggest roughly 1 in 5 women are assaulted (if my Bayesian math is right).

[ken0042]

Thanks Firebug. I was wondering how we had two opposite stats. Turns out I was reading it wrong.

[V]

Holy crap, after reading this thread from supposedly rational men I think I'm just going to chain my daughter to the basement radiator in a couple years. That should mitigate the risk.

[GreenLantern2814]

Is everyone glad they took time away from their friends and family to have this discussion?

[19Yzerman19]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Not most men. But some sick individuals, yes.

I just immediately flash back to a standup routine I saw a long time ago. It was a guy talking about the song "Cop Killer", and how a lot of people decried it for promoting violence against police officers. He said, I'm paraphrasing, "Are there really people out there thinking, 'Man I would love to blast a damn cop! If only I had the proper musical accompaniment!"

In my view, people committing these acts are not somehow triggered by provocative clothing (whatever that even means). I have difficulty believing that there are many instances of sexual assault where the assault wouldn't have happened if the victim was dressed less sexy.

Originally Posted by rubecube

When 1 out of 6 women are sexually assaulted by someone they know, I'd ask you just what exactly you'd expect them to do, other than just not having male acquaintances? The other edge of this sword is that women who do take this approach are admonished for categorizing all men as rapists.

Um, if anyone avoids contact with the male gender as a whole on the basis that they fear sexual assault, they should be admonished. That's completely insane.

[V]

So in the discussion of where the blame lies, when the discussion turns towards risk mitigation I liken that to people who go snowmobiling in the mountains without knowing what they're doing. They're putting themselves in significant harms way and when they find themselves in trouble it's their own damn fault. In that case, though, the mountain isn't to blame, because the mountain isn't doing anything wrong, it's just there, and the risk is solely placed at the feet of the rookie snowmobilers.

The rapist is not a blameless entity, nor is it simply a natural risk that should be treated with caution. The rapist is a malicious person that knows exactly what they're doing wrong, and should not be accepted in any way shape or form. By placing any blame, even a shred, on the victim you are removing even a shred of blame from the attacker, which by my books means you are placing even a little bit of legitimacy on them. That means, to me, that you are accepting there are rapists, and that there's nothing you can really do about them, because they just are.

That, to me, is just crazy. Yes, women should be careful, but when something goes wrong I don't see how you can even consider accepting the disgusting acts of the rapist even a little bit. And that's what you do when you consider laying even the smallest shred of blame on the victim.



tl;dr, the blame game is a net-zero sum, and placing any blame on the victim removes it from the attacker. And that's insane.

That's how it works out in my head, at least.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19

Um, if anyone avoids contact with the male gender as a whole on the basis that they fear sexual assault, they should be admonished. That's completely insane.

Well I was exaggerating a bit, but I do know women who avoid settings where straight men make up a significant portion of the attendees because they find that it's just not worth the hassle.

[Yakbutter]

[QUOTE=V;4714166]
The rapist is not a blameless entity, nor is it simply a natural risk that should be treated with caution. QUOTE]


Nobody in this thread is saying that.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Is everyone glad they took time away from their friends and family to have this discussion?

You're right. Bringing some of the myths surrounding sexual assault out into the limelight in order to expose them is a terrible idea.

[19Yzerman19]

Okay, but "not worth the hassle" - what does that mean? If it means "I don't want to be in a situation where I might have to interact in a sexually charged context right now", totally legitimate. If it's "oh there are a bunch of guys there, I'm not going because I'm scared one of them might assault me", I'd say that's a problem with you that you should probably work on.