Fair Elections Act

[GGG]

To continue BC voted 46% Conservative in the last election, Alberta 67%. So I assume half of BC is a national shame as well. Based on population more people in BC back the conservatives than in alberta.

More people in Greater Vancouver voted Conservative than Calgary

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by GGG

I like the no more encouraging people to vote campaigns. I think the rational is that they can appear partisan. Young people tend to vote further left then old people so get out the youth vote money is essentially being spent to move the electorate left. If a voter encouragement campaign gave taxi vouchers to old people to get them to polling stations that would move the electorate right. The type of campaign can target voters who are more likely to vlte for specific parties therefore shouldnt be done by elections canada.

Sometimes I take it for granted that people know certain things. I am often wrong about that. On that note:

The#voter turnout in Canada#among#young voters#is at a lower rate than all other age groups.[1]There is a general trend of decline in electoral participation among the youth and younger population. It is a serious ongoing issue in democratic countries all over the world, especially in Canada. “The youngest age cohort did experience a bump upwards in estimated voter turnout from 37% in the 2004 federal general election to 43.8% for following election, before descending to 37.4% for the 2008 federal general election.”[2]#Moreover, the percentage of provincial election participation was 28% in the youth aged 18–24 in 2001. However in the 2005 provincial election, the turnout in this age group remained low, but did increase to 35%.
[3]#Evidently, low voter turnout on the part of young Canadians has generated a great deal of concern.

SOURCE: youth voter turnout in Canada article on wikipedia (sorry, on my phone).

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by mustache ride

I was more interested in where my current rights ended under the what we currently have now. But swing it whatever way you need friend! Thanks for being such a fine representative of your province. haha

Did I sufficiently answer your question?

[mustache ride]

Haha ya i guess. What i took from it was that i can be completely off the grid but as long as one person knows my name i can vote

[19Yzerman19]

The fact that Alberta will vote conservative more or less no matter what is not the fault of Albertans, it's the fault of every other party effectively writing off the province and running on platforms that are considerably worse for people who live here. The Liberals and NDP assume they won't win here anyway, so there's no point in compromising their strategies in other provinces to try to get Albertan votes.

Complaining that Albertans won't vote against their own interests is pretty dumb.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Sometimes I take it for granted that people know certain things. I am often wrong about that. On that note:



SOURCE: youth voter turnout in Canada article on wikipedia (sorry, on my phone).

I know youth voter turnout is lower, I just dont particularly care nor do I think it is the governments role to make people care about electoral participation. Its up to the party to bring out the vote. I want educated voters who choose to enfranchise themselves.

And the fact that youth voting is low changes the politcal landscape. As if their turnout was the same as the average population there is a shift to the left. So a get out the youth vote is a partisan activity.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GGG

To continue BC voted 46% Conservative in the last election, Alberta 67%. So I assume half of BC is a national shame as well. Based on population more people in BC back the conservatives than in alberta.

More people in Greater Vancouver voted Conservative than Calgary

Alberta has more people than BC so I do not understand the population reference.

As for his terrible bill, it seems to me the logical thing to do would be to continue to allow vouching and elections Canada cards and place those votes in a separate ballot box and then count those ballots after the other "conservative" approved ballots are counted. That way you have isolated any of your supposed fraudulent ballots and you would in 90 percent of ridings never have to worry because the number of supposed fraudulent ballots would be less than the margin of victory in any case. That seems to me to be the logical solution but the democratic reform minister has chosen to disenfranchise voters instead.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GGG

I know youth voter turnout is lower, I just dont particularly care nor do I think it is the governments role to make people care about electoral participation. Its up to the party to bring out the vote. I want educated voters who choose to enfranchise themselves.

And the fact that youth voting is low changes the politcal landscape. As if their turnout was the same as the average population there is a shift to the left. So a get out the youth vote is a partisan activity.

Sending elections Canada people to nursing homes to get old people to vote is a partisan activity. Old people predominantly vote Conservative. If old people want to vote they should get on a bus or get a family member to drive them to the same polls that everyone else goes to. It should be up to the party to get old people to vote, Elections Canada does not set up polling stations at frat houses.

[John Doe]

Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19

The fact that Alberta will vote conservative more or less no matter what is not the fault of Albertans, it's the fault of every other party effectively writing off the province and running on platforms that are considerably worse for people who live here. The Liberals and NDP assume they won't win here anyway, so there's no point in compromising their strategies in other provinces to try to get Albertan votes.

Complaining that Albertans won't vote against their own interests is pretty dumb.

Seriously? You believe that for all Albertans (regardless of income, religious beliefs, sexual orientation, education, political beliefs, etc), the Conservative's policies and practices are in their interests and those of the Liberals and the NDP are against their interests?

I will grant you that the percentage of people that benefit from the Conservative's economic policies may be higher in Alberta than the rest of Canada, but that isn't enough to explain the voting practices here. Albertans vote Conservative because Albertans vote Conservative, often against their own interests.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Alberta has more people than BC so I do not understand the population reference.

In 2011 BC had 4.4 M and AB had 3.6 M. In 2013, AB was estimated to have reached 4.0 M.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by GGG

I know youth voter turnout is lower, I just dont particularly care nor do I think it is the governments role to make people care about electoral participation.

Doesn't it strike you as unfair and undemocratic that some segments of society are under-represented at the ballot box while other segments of society are over-represented at the ballot box? Do you not think that this might produce policy and legislation that unfairly and undemocratically benefits the over-represented cohort at the expense of the under-represented cohort?

Originally Posted by GGG

Its up to the party to bring out the vote. I want educated voters who choose to enfranchise themselves.

Why shouldn't the government play a role in educating voters and encouraging them to enfranchise themselves? No one is suggesting legislated mandatory voting.

Originally Posted by GGG

And the fact that youth voting is low changes the politcal landscape. As if their turnout was the same as the average population there is a shift to the left. So a get out the youth vote is a partisan activity.

You seem to assume that the status quo is some sort of neutral, non-partisan zero co-ordinate. I disagree.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Sending elections Canada people to nursing homes to get old people to vote is a partisan activity. Old people predominantly vote Conservative. If old people want to vote they should get on a bus or get a family member to drive them to the same polls that everyone else goes to. It should be up to the party to get old people to vote, Elections Canada does not set up polling stations at frat houses.

At the U of S in either the provincial or federal election they set up an all ward polling station in the university where you could vote as well as an advance poll. So they do put polling stations for people with access issues for all ages.

My opinion is that access should be provided, encouragement shouldnt be.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Doesn't it strike you as unfair and undemocratic that some segments of society are under-represented at the ballot box while other segments of society are over-represented at the ballot box? Do you not think that this might produce policy and legislation that unfairly and undemocratically benefits the over-represented cohort at the expense of the under-represented cohort?

Why shouldn't the government play a role in educating voters and encouraging them to enfranchise themselves? No one is suggesting legislated mandatory voting.

You seem to assume that the status quo is some sort of neutral, non-partisan zero co-ordinate. I disagree.

Why are youth or any other group under represented?

Is in a systemic access issue? Is it lack of ID, Is it lack of knowledge about where to vote? Or is it lazyness and dis-interest. The first 3 issues elections Canada is still allowed to provide information about. The fourth issue is the responsibility of the individual.

I would perfer legislated voting being required over targeted campaigns to bring out he vote. At least then it is done uniformly, however I perfer status quo. The government shouldnt be involved because of how partisan the results can be. Elections Canada needs to be infallibly non partisan. Allowing employees to develop programs to encourage specific groups to vote allows the opportunity (consciously or unconsciously) to engage in a partisan activity.

The status quo is what it is. It isnt a neutal position at all. However, if a neutral body spends money to change the makeup of the electorate in a way that will shift the vote towards one party or another it is a partisan activity.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by GGG

Why are youth or any other group under represented?

Is in a systemic access issue? Is it lack of ID, Is it lack of knowledge about where to vote? Or is it lazyness and dis-interest. The first 3 issues elections Canada is still allowed to provide information about. The fourth issue is the responsibility of the individual.

I would perfer legislated voting being required over targeted campaigns to bring out he vote. At least then it is done uniformly, however I perfer status quo. The government shouldnt be involved because of how partisan the results can be. Elections Canada needs to be infallibly non partisan. Allowing employees to develop programs to encourage specific groups to vote allows the opportunity (consciously or unconsciously) to engage in a partisan activity.

The status quo is what it is. It isnt a neutal position at all. However, if a neutral body spends money to change the makeup of the electorate in a way that will shift the vote towards one party or another it is a partisan activity.

Or perhaps having a neutral body target disenfranchised groups to encourage them to vote and get educated on the issues will force optical parties to have platforms that will represent the Canadian populous as a whole.

If a political party knows that group A is disenfranchised, they can then target the sector of the population that they know will vote and develop a platform that is specific for them, regardless of what other percentages of the population are affected.

By having a neutral body getting people tonvote, it seems to be a check on the political parties so they have more balanced platforms without making voting mandatory.

I'm ok with that. If you're not (I mean you plural and not specifically GGG) that's ok too.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by GGG

Why are youth or any other group under represented?

Is in a systemic access issue? Is it lack of ID, Is it lack of knowledge about where to vote? Or is it lazyness and dis-interest. The first 3 issues elections Canada is still allowed to provide information about. The fourth issue is the responsibility of the individual.

I would perfer legislated voting being required over targeted campaigns to bring out he vote. At least then it is done uniformly, however I perfer status quo. The government shouldnt be involved because of how partisan the results can be. Elections Canada needs to be infallibly non partisan. Allowing employees to develop programs to encourage specific groups to vote allows the opportunity (consciously or unconsciously) to engage in a partisan activity.

The status quo is what it is. It isnt a neutal position at all. However, if a neutral body spends money to change the makeup of the electorate in a way that will shift the vote towards one party or another it is a partisan activity.

Sorry, but you aren't using the word "partisan" correctly. Affecting the fortunes of a particular party or the outcome of a particular vote does not make something partisan. Otherwise, we might call the economy or the weather "partisan". Partisanship is a subjective state of mind or an intention.

Adjective[edit]

partisan (comparative more partisan, superlative most partisan)

1. Serving as commander or member of a body of detached light troops: as, a partisan officer or corps.
2. Adherent to a party or faction; especially, having the character of blind, passionate, or unreasonable adherence to a party; as, blinded by partisan zeal.
3. Devoted to or biased in support of a party, group, or cause: partisan politics.

SOURCE: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/partisan

[19Yzerman19]

Originally Posted by John Doe

Seriously? You believe that for all Albertans (regardless of income, religious beliefs, sexual orientation, education, political beliefs, etc), the Conservative's policies and practices are in their interests and those of the Liberals and the NDP are against their interests?

No, and I didn't say that it applies uniformly. When it comes to politics, nothing applies uniformly. However, for a majority of Albertans, there is a clear choice. Rather than attempting to narrow this margin, other national parties have effectively written the province off, thereby broadening it - i.e., they will take positions that are either significantly worse from Alberta's perspective when compared to the Conservatives' approach, or downright contrary to our Province's interests. As a result, if you're living in Alberta there's a pretty damned good chance that you're voting in your own best interests when you vote Conservative.

I'm an example of this... when I was in B.C. I was a liberal voter. I supported Martin unwaveringly, and I actually really liked Ignatieff and thought he would have made an excellent PM. I was extremely apprehensive about the outcome of the '06 election. If I'd been living in B.C. or Ontario I likely would have voted Liberal in the last two elections as I previously did, or at least it would have been a close call, because my political ideology aligns more strongly with the Liberal party's traditional platform. Living in Calgary, there's simply no way I can justify that vote to myself.

Incidentally, I don't believe that religious beliefs, sexual orientation or education should influence this in any game-changing way (unless by education you mean your personal stake in education, i.e. you're a student). Until one party starts actually legislating at the federal level in a manner that affects peoples' ability to practice their religion or infringes on the rights of the LGBT community, this isn't an issue. And the moment they do, I and many others will do everything I can to prevent everyone I know from voting for them, which is why they don't do it.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Sorry, but you aren't using the word "partisan" correctly. Effecting the fortunes of a particular party or the outcome of a particular vote does not make something partisan. Otherwise, we might call the economy or the weather "partisan". Partisanship is a subjective state of mind or an intention.

[/LIST] SOURCE: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/partisan

Thats fair, i should have said will make elections Canada appear partisan. Individuals within EC still have the opportunity to behave in a partisan manner.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by GGG

Thats fair, i should have said will make elections Canada appear partisan. Individuals within EC still have the opportunity to behave in a partisan manner.

^ Ugh, you quoted me before I fixed that embarrassing typo.

[John Doe]

Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19

No, and I didn't say that it applies uniformly. When it comes to politics, nothing applies uniformly. However, for a majority of Albertans, there is a clear choice. Rather than attempting to narrow this margin, other national parties have effectively written the province off, thereby broadening it - i.e., they will take positions that are either significantly worse from Alberta's perspective when compared to the Conservatives' approach, or downright contrary to our Province's interests. As a result, if you're living in Alberta there's a pretty damned good chance that you're voting in your own best interests when you vote Conservative.

I'm an example of this... when I was in B.C. I was a liberal voter. I supported Martin unwaveringly, and I actually really liked Ignatieff and thought he would have made an excellent PM. I was extremely apprehensive about the outcome of the '06 election. If I'd been living in B.C. or Ontario I likely would have voted Liberal in the last two elections as I previously did, or at least it would have been a close call, because my political ideology aligns more strongly with the Liberal party's traditional platform. Living in Calgary, there's simply no way I can justify that vote to myself.

Incidentally, I don't believe that religious beliefs, sexual orientation or education should influence this in any game-changing way (unless by education you mean your personal stake in education, i.e. you're a student). Until one party starts actually legislating at the federal level in a manner that affects peoples' ability to practice their religion or infringes on the rights of the LGBT community, this isn't an issue. And the moment they do, I and many others will do everything I can to prevent everyone I know from voting for them, which is why they don't do it.

I hear people say that the other parties write off Alberta, but I have'nt seen anything to back that up. What are they proposing to do that is so advantageous for the rest of Canada yet so bad for Alberta that it is a no-brainer to vote for the Conservatives? This is an honest question.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by John Doe

I hear people say that the other parties write off Alberta, but I have'nt seen anything to back that up. What are they proposing to do that is so advantageous for the rest of Canada yet so bad for Alberta that it is a no-brainer to vote for the Conservatives? This is an honest question.

The most recent was Dion's Carbon tax proposals,
The NEP started it.
The Wheatboard
The Dairy Quotas
Threatening Royalties to be included in transfer payment calcs
Transfer payments in general
Muclairs Dutch Disease comments
Enviromental scape goating of the oilsands (its an issue but its done in a manner to pit east vs. west)

Some of it like transfer payments is good for Canada, other is just vote buying out east. All of that said I dont think I can vote for Harper again.