Friedman: The top 3 picks in the draft to be decided by lottery?

[trackercowe]

If they make this change for next year and the Flames finish in last, but end up picking third (missing out on both McDavid and Eichel) I swear I am going to go slug KLowe.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Real hockey fans know the difference between "good hockey" and being at the basement of the standings with a .449 winning percentage. It truly is sad that our expectations have fallen so low that the watching our players simply put forth an effort is regarded as a successful season. The Oilers have terrible management that keeps them from turning the corner. The Islanders and Panthers are cash strapped teams that refuse to fork out the dollars required to be competitive. That's why they suck. Not because they "tanked".

True, "real hockey fans" do know what "good hockey" is, and I'd say at least 80% of the time this year, the Flames have delivered "good hockey". Unfortunately, they have been the losing team in a "good hockey" performance far more often than not (as you point out), but that doesn't change the fact that it is indeed "good hockey". Last few seasons there was a lot less "good hockey" being played by this club.

And I think "real hockey" fans also realize the reason the Flames are delivering "good hockey" is the effort, because they aren't the most talented bunch. So when people get excited about the "effort" it's because they are smart enough to realize that it is the "effort" the Flames are putting forth that is making the hockey good, not because expectations have fallen so low at this point.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes Chicago is good. That does NOT mean tanking to get a top pick will get you a cup. And keep in mind that Chicago dwelled at or near the basement for 14 years before their lottery picks led them to the promised land.

Chicago's turn-around had as much or more to do with the death of Bill Wurtz and his son making fundamental changes to the way the team was run than it did with the top picks.

The same is true with the Penguins. After the lockout, they changed from being a "let's just try to survive" mentality to "holy crap, we've actually got some good players, we could actually win something".


That's what too many people ignore when talking about the Blackhawks' and Penguins' successes. That's what separates those teams from the Panthers, Thrashers/Jets, Islanders, and Oilers.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Real hockey fans know the difference between "good hockey" and being at the basement of the standings with a .449 winning percentage. It truly is sad that our expectations have fallen so low that the watching our players simply put forth an effort is regarded as a successful season. The Oilers have terrible management that keeps them from turning the corner. The Islanders and Panthers are cash strapped teams that refuse to fork out the dollars required to be competitive. That's why they suck. Not because they "tanked".

The Islanders just offered Tomas Vanek league max and the panthers just acquired one of the richest contracts in the league. They are terrible because they are mired in the stench of constant failure. They underachieve, not because they are 'tankers', but because somewhere along the line, they became losers and that is what they are. Some teams have the leg strength to burst out of that sloppy hellish quicksand, many don't.

The Flames will get a good pick this year while being overachievers. They have built a foundation where effort is second only to the pure hatred of the vileness that is losing. For that, we should all be thankful, and stop worrying about the difference between a third and a fifth round pick.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

This is not what anyone is saying. Suggesting that fans are happy with an effort is a logical fallacy that does not support your argument

Fans here have said exactly that, that as long as the team tries hard, they don't care if they win or lose this season, so I don't see how this is a logical fallacy. Regardless, I will just drop it, no sense in arguing this as we aren't going to change our positions.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

If they make this change for next year and the Flames finish in last, but end up picking third (missing out on both McDavid and Eichel) I swear I am going to go slug KLowe.

I think that people need to be prepared for the real kick in the nuts scenario that the league expands in 2015. Traditionally, expansion teams have been adorned with the top pick in the draft. If it becomes a 32 team league for the start of the 2015/2016 season, there's a good chance that the Flames will enter next season with ZERO chance of getting Eichel or McDavid. Actually, I bet Bettman is salivating over the chance to give two new teams franchise centremen to activate the fan bases. I for one hope we draft 12th, but ya know, I'm one of those enjoys winning and getting better kind of fans.

[Sylvanfan]

I think this is getting a bit nuts. The NFL is just fine with it's system the way it is. Sounds like a league that's scared that some of the better young players to enter it in the next 5 years are going to end up in Buffalo, Canada, or Sunrise Florida. It's not like teams have exclusive rights to these players for 12-13 years anymore, they have them for 7, and have to start paying the good ones a lot of money after 3.

[Red Ice Player]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Fans here have said exactly that, that as long as the team tries hard, they don't care if they win or lose this season, so I don't see how this is a logical fallacy. Regardless, I will just drop it, no sense in arguing this as we aren't going to change our positions.

What most fans have been saying is they don't mind if the Flames lose, so long as they were trying to win. Losses during the first year of a long overdue rebuild don't upset me, because they play to win every night, the talent level being lacking. They're a losing team that doesn't suck. That's good enough for me this year.

[Robbob]

Chicago also had a horseshoe up its arse in the Kane draft moving from 5th to 1st. I don't think you can convince me that they win a Stanley Cup with Samise instead.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by #-3

I think I have heard something like this here before. But I like a system when all 14 picks are done by random, weighted draw. And if they insist on making a TV event out of it, they should get a large Bingo Hoper, fill it will 535 balls.

17th Overall gets 88 balls
18th - 80
19th - 72
20th - 64
21st - 56
22nd - 48
23rd - 40
24th - 32
25th - 24
26th - 16
27th - 8
28th - 4
29th - 2
30th - 1

First Ball pulled gets 14ths Overall, Second 13th........

At least it would build to a Climax.
And yes it would give the worst team in the league ~ a 0.2% chance of picking 14th overall

I like it a lot, but want to add one thing:

Your draft position adds balls for the next draft. So, whoever drafts first overall has 14 (lets say) balls added to the next draft.

So, this year going into the draft Colorado would have 14+position balls, and Columbus would have 1+position balls.

Not enough balls to make a gigantic difference and prevent the truly terrible teams from needing 2 drafts to build their prospect pool, but enough to remove any incentive from looking at the draft as your only source of building a roster.

This year is a great example. The Islanders have had a horrible year, but last year had made huge strides towards becoming a relevant team last year. As such, they accumulated no balls from last years draft. So, based on current standings if the season were to end right now they would end with:
0 balls from last years draft + 8 from this years standings

Versus Edmonton, who will enter with:
8 balls from last years draft + 2 from this years standings

Making it slightly more probable that the Islanders will draft higher than the Oilers, which IMO is how it should be.

So, based on last years draft and current standings we would be looking at a draft lottery like this:
Buffalo - 1 + 7 = 8
Edmonton - 2 + 8 = 10
Florida - 4 + 13 = 17
Islanders - 8
Flames - 16 + 9 = 25
Hurricanes - 24 + 10 = 34
Predators - 32 + 11 = 43
Senators - 40
Jets - 48 + 2 = 50
Devils - 56
Canucks - 64 + 6 = 70
Red Wings - 75
Capitals - 88

[flamesfever]

I believe we should forget the draft and just concentrate on winning as often as possible. By doing the right thing, our Karma will help our success.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by #-3

I think I have heard something like this here before. But I like a system when all 14 picks are done by random, weighted draw. And if they insist on making a TV event out of it, they should get a large Bingo Hoper, fill it will 535 balls.

17th Overall gets 88 balls
18th - 80
19th - 72
20th - 64
21st - 56
22nd - 48
23rd - 40
24th - 32
25th - 24
26th - 16
27th - 8
28th - 4
29th - 2
30th - 1

First Ball pulled gets 14ths Overall, Second 13th........

At least it would build to a Climax.
And yes it would give the worst team in the league ~ a 0.2% chance of picking 14th overall

I like it, but the only problem for TV would be the same teams being drawed over and over again. It would slow the draft down (especially for the last 5 selections) with the constant duplicates.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by Fire

I like it, but the only problem for TV would be the same teams being drawed over and over again. It would slow the draft down (especially for the last 5 selections) with the constant duplicates.

They wouldn't have to film it live. Although live would be a lot better, they could film it, edit it, then air it.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

They wouldn't have to film it live. Although live would be a lot better, they could film it, edit it, then air it.

Which is what they do now, and people still accuse them of rigging it.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Major Major

The Islanders just offered Tomas Vanek league max and the panthers just acquired one of the richest contracts in the league. They are terrible because they are mired in the stench of constant failure. They underachieve, not because they are 'tankers', but because somewhere along the line, they became losers and that is what they are. Some teams have the leg strength to burst out of that sloppy hellish quicksand, many don't.

The Flames will get a good pick this year while being overachievers. They have built a foundation where effort is second only to the pure hatred of the vileness that is losing. For that, we should all be thankful, and stop worrying about the difference between a third and a fifth round pick.

The Islanders and Panthers are bad because they didn't utilize their top draft picks. Simple as that. Whether it be poor scouting, under funded, poor management, whatever. If they were picking later in the draft they probably would have drafted even worse players.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by Fire

I like it, but the only problem for TV would be the same teams being drawed over and over again. It would slow the draft down (especially for the last 5 selections) with the constant duplicates.

Easy. Each ball has a $.05 RFID chip inside it, each with 1 of 14 IDs on it. As soon as a teams ball is selected, all of their future balls are rejected when they are selected.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by getbak

Which is what they do now, and people still accuse them of rigging it.

I don't know of I buy the whole "lottery is rigged" thing. If it was rigged, I seriously doubt they would give Edmonton 3 straight 1st overalls.

[Vinny01]

For a team that has never sucked enough to pick higher than 6th this is good news for the flames

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

I don't know of I buy the whole "lottery is rigged" thing. If it was rigged, I seriously doubt they would give Edmonton 3 straight 1st overalls.

That's what they want you to think.

They were trying to throw people off their trail with that stunt in time for McDavid.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Fire

I like it, but the only problem for TV would be the same teams being drawed over and over again. It would slow the draft down (especially for the last 5 selections) with the constant duplicates.

The Balls Probably Cost $0.10 to make. For the sake of TV, and $700. Just print 13 batches of Balls for Every team. Dump and refill the hopper for every draw. It will have TSN a chance to interview the GM, and air some Ford/Dodge commercials.

Hell, Even let Tim Hortons Sponsor the girls in yoga pants dumping bags full of balls into the hoper between every draw.

And I did think of the idea that winning a Stanley Cup or picking first overall should add extra balls for a team. But it seemed too complicated. I think this would provide entertainment, eliminated the "It's Rigged". and reduce Tanking.