Ukraine to get $220M in financial support from Canada

[NuclearPizzaMan]

Originally Posted by Pointman

I said it clearly that he was bad and I do not support him. The point was that country wasn't exactly in poverty however corrupt and inept he allegedly was (and to certain extent he surely was).

Poverty can be relative. Ukraine may not be super poor compared to it's neighbours to the east or north, but just west of Ukraine is Poland. Ukraine is pretty dirt poor compared to Poland. Can't blame anyone for trying to stop Yanukovych from pulling the country even further east.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Yakbutter

You need to go look up the dates of Germany's first aggression and whens USA finally entered the war. Germany invaded Poland and annexed other lands east of Germany for years and the united states refused to be involved. The states and the west didn't involve themselves until France fell and Germany started bombing Britain. (and pearl harbour)

You know that Germany didn't bomb Pearl Harbor, right? It was Japan who did that. The United States didn't enter WWII until the day after they were attacked.

Originally Posted by Yakbutter

Western countries refusing to involve themselves in Europe's wars is nothing new. Canada wanting to separate from Britain so we wouldn't have to fight in it conflicts is one of the reasons we are a sovereign nation. Yes I realise we are sending $$ and not soldiers but how long is Canada going to be dragged into Europe's wars? Been going on for hundreds of years now.

Really? As someone who was alive when Canada ceased to be a Dominion and became a country I'd appreciate something published or quoted that supports this notion.

Originally Posted by Yakbutter

Also many people in Ukraine wants to join Russia anyways, the media is just blowing this up is an 'illegal occupation' for the sake of sensational news.

So, you'd be cool with the United States military rolling into Canada en masse under the claim of protecting Americans in our country?

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Reaper

You know that Germany didn't bomb Pearl Harbor, right? It was Japan who did that. The United States didn't enter WWII until the day after they were attacked.

US was aiding anti-Hitler countries (including USSR, btw) heavily from the 1941. Check out Land Lease

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Pointman

US was aiding anti-Hitler countries (including USSR, btw) heavily from the 1941. Check out Land Lease

While there may have certainly been financial support there was no formal declaration of war until December 8, 1941.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Ask the Americans

Isolationism from the international community doesn't work. And Canada is still a leader in terms of humanitarian causes.

Plus its the only slap in the mouth that we can give Putin

Well.. it sorta worked for Japan for a while. You know, until about 150 years ago when they fell too far behind on technology and firepower and could no longer turn away ships

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Teh_Bandwagoner

Well.. it sorta worked for Japan for a while. You know, until about 150 years ago when they fell too far behind on technology and firepower and could no longer turn away ships

Wait so then it didn't work........?

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Wait so then it didn't work........?

It worked for like 250 years! But the came to a screaming halt when the Americans came to port sporting their steam powered warships. Watch the anime Rurouni Kenshin to learn more!

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Teh_Bandwagoner

It worked for like 250 years! But the came to a screaming halt when the Americans came to port sporting their steam powered warships. Watch the anime Rurouni Kenshin to learn more!

Post was tongue in cheek, a bit, but at the end if the day that approach does not work.

Plus 2 pts for referencing a cartoon movie.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Post was tongue in cheek, a bit, but at the end if the day that approach does not work.

Plus 2 pts for referencing a cartoon movie.

I figured this whole conversation has been tongue in cheek lol. In the end the goal was to mock Yakbutter's lack of knowledge in the history of Isolationism. And in that I think we all did well.

[Yakbutter]

Originally Posted by Teh_Bandwagoner

I figured this whole conversation has been tongue in cheek lol. In the end the goal was to mock Yakbutter's lack of knowledge in the history of Isolationism. And in that I think we all did well.

I think you need to go back to school and learn how to read. I said not get involved in military conflicts, not isolate Canada from the rest of the world.

See Wikipedia: straw man.

[smoothpops]

just out of curiosity, what does $220M in aid in this "conflict" actually translate into? does someone get guns, is it just a payoff or is it just to pay bills for stability sake? it seems like a nice gesture of solidarity, but where does the money go to?

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Neither. Previous one was democratically elected and wasn't as corrupted, as it is made out to be now. Ukraine was not in poverty, it was good enough to co-host Euro Soccer at 2012, for example. Yet he was bad and many Ukrainians hate him. Current government is not democratic at all, if they are any democratic, why wouldn't they go for elections which were scheduled next year? Their first law was banning Russian as official language in Russian-speaking regions (like banning French in Quebec). They are not democratic and not progressive or anything. They are just anti-Russian, which is why EU/US like them. That said, occupation is wrong move. Land grabbing just should not be tolerated in our age, it should be gone.

See, I don't get this type of thinking. I would think increasing demonstrations, which were mostly peaceful, to oust a government that isn't listening to it's people, is the perfect example of democracy at work. The leader was warned repeatly to change his direction by the people, he knew it wasn't a popular choice, and to top it all off, he was incredibly corrupt, not only siphoning government money to himself, but apparently bankrupting the treasury.

As far as the current government goes, I haven't heard what you've heard obviously. I thought there were elections coming up?

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Yakbutter

I think you need to go back to school and learn how to read. I said not get involved in military conflicts, not isolate Canada from the rest of the world.

See Wikipedia: straw man.

Glass houses.

Perhaps you should go back to school and retake history, since you apparently have little clue about things like Canada and Britain, who bombed Pearl Harbour, or what an "illegal occupation" is. You know, just a tip.

[Locke]

Well, as informative as all of that off-topic nonsense is, this is still a bit ridiculous until we know the specifics.

Quite honestly, this conflict is stemming from 'who or what is a Ukrainian?' So who did they make that cheque out to and how are they sure that whatever passes for a Government in Ukraine at the moment is going to do anything other than sign the cash right over to Putin to keep their homes warm and their water hot?

[Azure]

What people forget is that part of being a strong country economically is having a strong flow of immigrants that WANT to come here. Making an effort in the international community ensures that we create demand for people to want to move to Canada.

Especially skilled workers, since we clearly have a shortage and will for many years.

[worth]

The government has not cut a cheque to anyone yet. The money is not for buying arms to defend the country. When there is a stable government Canada will discuss where the funds will go and where they can most effectively be put towards. We are not giving them 220mill tomorrow and saying go crazy.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by worth

The government has not cut a cheque to anyone yet. The money is not for buying arms to defend the country. When there is a stable government Canada will discuss where the funds will go and where they can most effectively be put towards. We are not giving them 220mill tomorrow and saying go crazy.

Well, technically the money is going to the IMF, as part of a large package they're putting together.

Canada specifically isn't deciding how the funds are allotted, but I don't think the IMF is known for funding weapons purchases and the like, and they are holding off until stable government is in place.

[Yakbutter]

Originally Posted by strombad

Glass houses.

Perhaps you should go back to school and retake history, since you apparently have little clue about things like Canada and Britain, who bombed Pearl Harbour, or what an "illegal occupation" is. You know, just a tip.

Another person who needs to work on his reading comprehension. I didn't say Germany bombed pearl harbour. No offence kid but you might want to re-read what people say before you respond to them.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Yakbutter

Another person who needs to work on his reading comprehension. I didn't say Germany bombed pearl harbour. No offence kid but you might want to re-read what people say before you respond to them.

Sorry kid, but you might want to learn how to write/speak with some semblance of proper grammar, because you certainly did:

Originally Posted by Yakbutter

The states and the west didn't involve themselves until France fell and Germany started bombing Britain. (and pearl harbour)

It was likely a grammatical error on your part, since "And pearl harbour" isn't a sentence, most readers would use the conjunction properly and transform your sentence into: "Germany started bombing Britain and pearl harbour." Or "...Germany started bombing Britain, and pearl harbour."

If you wanted your post to make any logical sense and avoid saying that Germany bombed Pearl Harbour, it would be formatted as follows:

"The states and the west didn't involve themselves until France fell, Germany started bombing Britain, and Pearl Harbour."

If you had been able to form a proper sentence, your point would be clear. Instead the closest sense that could be made was two different items: France falling + Germany bombing Britain and Pearl Harbour.

Just a little English lesson for the guy who tells people to work on their reading comprehension so that they can understand his complete grammatical failure. Keep up the effort!

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Pointman

And for the record, I support it. Russia needs stable and fairly rich Ukraine, not an anarchic poverty mess that it could become without help. No one.wants a poor unstable country right at your borders.

Russia's actions (military invasion and carving up of Ukraine's territory), does exactly the opposite of this goal however, so excuse anyone for not believing that Russia has Ukraine's best interests in mind right now.