Should you get a speeding ticket for going 10 km/h over the speed limit?

[Clarkey]

Speaking of speeding, why do we even have police manning photo radar? If a box on a light pole can do it so can a guy making $16/hr. That type of work should be subcontracted out to save money and to free up police to do higher value/higher risk work (that's why we pay them >$100k a year).

[gasman]

Originally Posted by btimbit

This is good news, this must mean they've solved all other crime and can focus more on minor traffic offences.

Good job Edmonton!

I have always treated photo radar as nothing more than a "tax" on people that wish to travel faster than the posted speed limit. I am a firm believer that it does little to slow people down as the radar vans are often hidden, and you don't get the ticket for weeks. Generally leading to fights with your significant other over who exactly was driving on that day.

I don't really have a problem with it. It is pretty simple to avoid a photo radar ticket, and if you want to speed that is the extra "tax" that you get to pay.

I don't really understand your comment though. What does photo radar have to do with other unrelated crime? EPS or CPS don't run the photo radar programs for either Calgary or Edmonton and I am fairly sure that the revenue goes into the general city revenue not directly to the police budgets.

The police services provide oversight but the operators and ticket reviewers are generally Commissionaires who are essentially fancy security guards not cops.

[Lanny_McDonald]

What part of speed limit did you miss? You exceed it you should get a ticket.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by New Era

What part of speed limit did you miss? You exceed it you should get a ticket.

You're missing the point. There's usually a leeway because of variations in speedometers and radar equipment. If the police start instituting a zero tolerance policy you could get a ticket even if you think you're at, or slightly below, the limit.

By the way, can you imagine the gridlock we'd have if everyone obeyed the speed limit at all times? You should thanks speeders for keeping traffic moving.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

You're missing the point. There's usually a leeway because of variations in speedometers and radar equipment. If the police start instituting a zero tolerance policy you could get a ticket even if you think you're at, or slightly below, the limit.

By the way, can you imagine the gridlock we'd have if everyone obeyed the speed limit at all times? You should thanks speeders for keeping traffic moving.

Actually, I'm not missing the point. The speed limit is the maximum you should be traveling. You should not exceed that speed for any reason, even passing. With the improvements in technology, especially GPS, you have less and less excuse to say you were unaware of how fast you were going. Do I observe that posted speed limit all the time? Nope. Do I complain when I get a ticket? Nope. I knew I was doing wrong and I take the lump.

The problem is there are just too many people out there who think they are special and the law doesn't apply to them. They can travel at whatever speed they want and behave in whatever manner they want behind the wheel of a car. Speed limits are there to protect people and should observed and enforced accordingly, just like drunk driving laws. Is .08 really fair? Shouldn't there be some latitude in that measure as well? Those instruments are just as susceptible to calibrations issues as any other electronic device. Should we give people 10% leeway there too? If we give 10%, why not 20%? Or maybe we should just live by the law as it is written and follow the rules?

On traffic flows, if everyone adhered to the posted speed limit there would be no tie ups. Because people don't, and travel under that limit or in excess of it, we end up with problems. Ask a traffic engineer about speed limits and how they affect traffic flow. They are implemented to maximize traffic flow, and when people exceed or do not meet them, traffic flows are affected in a negative way.

[para transit fellow]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

You're missing the point. There's usually a leeway because of variations in speedometers and radar equipment. If the police start instituting a zero tolerance policy you could get a ticket even if you think you're at, or slightly below, the limit.

By the way, can you imagine the gridlock we'd have if everyone obeyed the speed limit at all times? You should thanks speeders for keeping traffic moving.

just think of the chaos if police stated a zero tolerance for something like Driving under the influence...

[Regular_John]

I've always understood it as being 10% difference, so 55 in a 50, 66 in a 60, etc. But it also varies very much with the flow of traffic and just how local drivers behave.

In Calgary we tend to go 10/kmh over the limit everywhere, where as I notice when I was in Washington a few years ago the flow of traffic was bang on with the speed limit everywhere. If the limit was 65/mph the traffic was moving at exactly 65/mph.

[getbak]

This story seems less about anything changing in Edmonton and more about a reporter whining about getting a ticket he fully deserved.

When I asked Gerry Shimko, the city’s executive director of traffic safety, if there was now any tolerance for speeding, he said even one km over can get you a $57 ticket. “The answer to me is we should have zero speed tolerance,” he said: “The law is the law.”

Of course, if you ask the guy, he's going to say, "we should have zero speed tolerance". That's his job. Notice he didn't say that there is zero tolerance, just that there should be.

This story is exactly why the people in charge of enforcement won't tell you what the real threshold is. Nearly 20 years ago, someone told this reporter that the threshold was 15, so now he's whining that he got a ticket for going 10 over. If he had been told there was zero tolerance 20 years ago, he'd have nothing to complain about now.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by New Era

Actually, I'm not missing the point. The speed limit is the maximum you should be traveling. You should not exceed that speed for any reason, even passing.

Sure, but to fairly enforce this law you need a leeway because of calibrations issues.

With the improvements in technology, especially GPS, you have less and less excuse to say you were unaware of how fast you were going.

GPS is accurate to about 1km/h. If we're talking zero tolerance that's not good enough. And seriously, who uses their GPS to gauge their speed on a regular basis? That's sounds pretty unsafe to me.

Do I observe that posted speed limit all the time? Nope. Do I complain when I get a ticket? Nope. I knew I was doing wrong and I take the lump.

This has nothing to do with my argument. I also say you should pay your tickets when you break the law.

The problem is there are just too many people out there who think they are special and the law doesn't apply to them. They can travel at whatever speed they want and behave in whatever manner they want behind the wheel of a car.

I don't get why you say this when you admitted to speeding yourself.

Speed limits are there to protect people and should observed and enforced accordingly, just like drunk driving laws. Is .08 really fair? Shouldn't there be some latitude in that measure as well? Those instruments are just as susceptible to calibrations issues as any other electronic device. Should we give people 10% leeway there too?

Is an alcohol meter that is slightly miscalibrated going to get you a DUI? Nope. And there should no comparison between drunk driving and minor speeding.

If we give 10%, why not 20%?

Slippery slope says what?

Or maybe we should just live by the law as it is written and follow the rules?

Because some laws are arbitrary, or unfair. Zero tolerance for speeding is the latter.

On traffic flows, if everyone adhered to the posted speed limit there would be no tie ups. Because people don't, and travel under that limit or in excess of it, we end up with problems. Ask a traffic engineer about speed limits and how they affect traffic flow. They are implemented to maximize traffic flow, and when people exceed or do not meet them, traffic flows are affected in a negative way.

I'd like to see the science on this one.

[Fire]

There shouldn't be any speed limits except for school and playground zones.

[Stanathan]

We need a Sheriff, police officer, or RCMP to weigh in here. I think most of you are making too much of this calibration issue. I'm sure in this day and age, their calibration methods and radar technology are sound. The last time I spoke to an RCMP member about calibration he very candidly discussed how calibration is done, how often, and how accurate the radar is. They typically allow for a variable of 2km/hour either way, it is that accurate.

They don't care about allowing of a variable in your speedometer, that's your problem.

He explained that in his experience and in discussion with his peers, they will typically allow for 10% over but very clearly explained that this is not a rule or law and it is not something they are required to automatically concede and a few of them don't.

My advice is if you don't want a ticket, don't rely on the 10% over they typically give, just follow the posted limits. If you get a ticket for speeding, don't whine about it, you were in the wrong. We can debate the merits of how the system works because I have huge issues with it, but as it exists now in literal understanding, no sense whining when you get caught.

[return to the red]

while i'm not a police officer I have been on many ride-a-longs with my brother-in-law who is a traffic cop. After every speeding ticket he ALWAYS checks the calibration on his radar and logs it. He does it so that if it ever comes into question he has proof and it can't be argued.

I'm with New Era on this one. It's a Speed LIMIT a MAXIMUM of x kph. No where does it say +/- 10% on the signs. If you are over the speed limit then you run the risk of getting ticketed. I accept this every time I go over the speed limit and my butt hole still puckers passing a cop even 5% over the limit because I know he has every right to ticket me.

should mention, its and interesting way they test the calibration. They actually use 2 tuning forks

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Should totally follow Europes standards. I always find it amusing when Top Gear does america. They hate the speed limits in NA.

They hate speed limits in the UK too...

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by Stanathan

We need a Sheriff, police officer, or RCMP to weigh in here. I think most of you are making too much of this calibration issue. I'm sure in this day and age, their calibration methods and radar technology are sound. The last time I spoke to an RCMP member about calibration he very candidly discussed how calibration is done, how often, and how accurate the radar is. They typically allow for a variable of 2km/hour either way, it is that accurate.

I knew a guy who was a mechanic, his dad was a cop; basically what he said is that the detectors are fairly accurate however this was not the issue. The issue was that in a court of law it was possible to use precedent of others who fought their tickets on the grounds that the detectors were only accurate to plus/minus 10kph, the result was that way too many people were taking their tickets to court and dragging the cop along with them resulting in a huge waste of time.

So if they only give tickets to everyone 10 or more above they are exponentially less likely to try and fight it and waste the cops time. Even if they knew they were speeding 5 over people would fight it because they knew they had a chance.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by DOOM

I always thought it was something like "9 your fine, 10 your mine"

You're correct.

An RCMP family member who has worked traffic for some time says that, as a rule of thumb, try to stay at or below 9 km over the speed limit on the main arteries. There are some police who try to catch as many speeders as possible, and will stop you at 10km or above. These types are called "high producers", and are known for their efficiency in handing out large numbers of speeding tickets per month.

[Northendzone]

10 kph over on deerfoot, Crowchild or glen more, no ticket.....10 over on a typical residential street yes.

I believe that if you are speeding then you should be taxed.

Now I'd like to crab about the photo radar that has been parked on glenmore right under blackfoot trail. Last fall they shut down the construction on the blackfoot overpass last fall, but they left the reduced speed signs up on glen more and now they are using the area to make money. Right now there is no reason to have reduced speed on glenmore.....

[stampsx2]

I don't mind if the police budget is padded with speeding tickets. If you don't want to pay a police officer's salary, it's simple- don't speed. If anything, it might keep our taxes down.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by gasman

I don't really understand your comment though. What does photo radar have to do with other unrelated crime? EPS or CPS don't run the photo radar programs for either Calgary or Edmonton and I am fairly sure that the revenue goes into the general city revenue not directly to the police budgets.

You didn't read the thread. I have no issues directly with speed enforcment, I'm simply commenting on how I don't like the attention speeders get, especially minor ones, while bigger issues that also fall under the purview of the traffic unit gets largely unenforced.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by btimbit

This is good news, this must mean they've solved all other crime and can focus more on minor traffic offences.

Good job Edmonton!

How many people die from being murdered every year, compared to the number of people who die in traffic crashes? I haven't looked for a while, but it is usually similar number; if not slightly more in car crashes. So enforcement of the traffic laws does serve a purpose in maintaining public safety. Also, by having police officers assigned to traffic duty (and paying for themselves by writing tickets), it allows for there to be more officers on duty at any given time. So if there is an emergency, or even for routine patrols, there is the increased safety there.

Don't get me wrong- I speed. I speed quite frequently. However I also realize that any time I get a ticket, that means I was travelling too fast to be aware enough of my surroundings to notice the police officer or the traffic camera.

Regarding the 10 over- 10% debate. No matter which you think it is; the reason this exists is to allow for margin of error. Your spedometer is off by a couple of km/h, the radar is off by another 2, and/or when traveling the speed limit you accidentally go over by a couple. It doesn't mean there should be no enforcement over and above the limit.

[btimbit]

^Same response as the post above