[GDT] Flames vs Wild, 6pm MST - Sportsnet West

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Kristen Odland @KristenOdlandCH
Also, of note, #Flames interim general manager Brian Burke is meeting up with the team to watch tonight's game vs. the #Wild.

As we lead up to the deadline this is me:

[Henry Fool]

Fontaine or Haula might be interesting trade targets.

[flamesfan1297]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Kristen Odland @KristenOdlandCH
Also, of note, #Flames interim general manager Brian Burke is meeting up with the team to watch tonight's game vs. the #Wild.

This isn't really big or shocking news. Why wouldn't he meet up with his team?

[nmhen]

When multiple coaches have to try a player - the supposed leader on the team - with multiple other players, at least some of whom have had real success in the NHL before that point, and, when the pairing doesn't produce offense, the other players get moved, not the captain, I think it's reasonable to ask why the captain is the only one who doesn't get demoted. Yes, my perception is that Koivu gets treated with kid gloves - you mentioned Yeo still feels the need to blow sunshine up his breezers - and that is indicative of a player who requires a little extra....attention/care to get to his happy place. Did you know that Fletcher found it prudent to fly to Finland to make sure Koivu was cool with him hiring Yeo?

And, why is that a disingenuous list? It is representative of the "offensive-minded" players with whom he has been paired, and not found chemistry, over the years. That's all it claimed to be.

Of course that's how it sounds to you. You're on the other side of the trade.

I *think* Richards named him the permanent captain, it wasn't until after Lemaire left. Not 100% sure on that, though.

Look, if you think Koivu's a first line center in the NHL, that's great. I think he's a very good two-way center in the NHL. An ideal 2nd line center. We're annually in the bottom third in the league in scoring (currently 26th in the league). Yes, we were an expansion team, but that was 13 years ago. I refuse to accept that as an excuse anymore.

So, you are right that a big part of my position is wishing the Wild had more talent so they could justify playing Mikko on the second line. I just would not enjoy dealing with the whining about the injustice to him from his legion of fans if/when that happens.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by nmhen

When multiple coaches have to try a player - the supposed leader on the team - with multiple other players, at least some of whom have had real success in the NHL before that point, and, when the pairing doesn't produce offense, the other players get moved, not the captain, I think it's reasonable to ask why the captain is the only one who doesn't get demoted. Yes, my perception is that Koivu gets treated with kid gloves - you mentioned Yeo still feels the need to blow sunshine up his breezers - and that is indicative of a player who requires a little extra....attention/care to get to his happy place. Did you know that Fletcher found it prudent to fly to Finland to make sure Koivu was cool with him hiring Yeo?

And, why is that a disingenuous list? It is representative of the "offensive-minded" players with whom he has been paired, and not found chemistry, over the years. That's all it claimed to be.

Of course that's how it sounds to you. You're on the other side of the trade.

I *think* Richards named him the permanent captain, it wasn't until after Lemaire left. Not 100% sure on that, though.

Look, if you think Koivu's a first line center in the NHL, that's great. I think he's a very good two-way center in the NHL. An ideal 2nd line center. We're annually in the bottom third in the league in scoring (currently 26th in the league). Yes, we were an expansion team, but that was 13 years ago. I refuse to accept that as an excuse anymore.

So, you are right that a big part of my position is wishing the Wild had more talent so they could justify playing Mikko on the second line. I just would not enjoy dealing with the whining about the injustice to him from his legion of fans if/when that happens.

The list is disingenuous. Parise? Brunette? You're just trying to make it sound like he has no chemistry with anyone. Not only that, apparently it's not that you have had bad wingers and no other centers for years, it's Koivu being high maintenance when the lines were being shuffled. Seriously, it doesn't sound like you appreciate his contributions at all.

As for him being a first-line center, that's not what I've been saying. I just think you're going too far in trying to prove that he's overrated and kind of crapping all over him in the process.

Ideally, on a championship team, he wouldn't be on the first line. No one would disagree. Ideally the Wild would also have a goal scorer and more than two good defensemen. But in the real world he's the best center they have and has been for years. That doesn't make him overrated. What you fail to see is how much crap you're shoveling on Koivu just for being captain of mediocre teams. Everything follows from the basic fact that the teams haven't been good - the apparent inconsistency, the lines that don't produce enough, getting shut down by the Hawks last spring, etc.

[Scoutski]

Originally Posted by fotze

I assume his personal reason is in his wife's gut in this pic.

https://twitter.com/babycupcake84/st...613824/photo/1

Damn... McGrattan's wife is stunning, he's killin' it.

[HUSKER4FLAMES]

Gentleman please.

I miss Halifaxdrunk

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by nmhen

When multiple coaches have to try a player - the supposed leader on the team - with multiple other players, at least some of whom have had real success in the NHL before that point, and, when the pairing doesn't produce offense, the other players get moved, not the captain, I think it's reasonable to ask why the captain is the only one who doesn't get demoted. Yes, my perception is that Koivu gets treated with kid gloves - you mentioned Yeo still feels the need to blow sunshine up his breezers - and that is indicative of a player who requires a little extra....attention/care to get to his happy place. Did you know that Fletcher found it prudent to fly to Finland to make sure Koivu was cool with him hiring Yeo?
[...]

No, I didn't say that and your conclusions don't follow. I said other than Yeo, the commentary is unnecessarily negative. It couldn't just be a coach saying that his captain played well in a game? Of course it couldn't if your premise is that he does a bad job. So to you it must indicate a problematic attitude from Koivu. Again, that really sounds like you're reaching for the negative because the obvious doesn't add to your argument.

[nmhen]

@Henry Fool

I made a statement, you disagreed. So I'm giving you all my arguments in support of my point. You're implying that I'm having to work too hard to make my point from which I'm inferring that you feel it therefore must not be a very good point.

I'm not going to change my mind about Koivu, and I'm not asking you to change yours.

I'd say we've spun this one out as far as we can, yes?

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by nmhen

@Henry Fool

I made a statement, you disagreed. So I'm giving you all my arguments in support of my point. You're implying that I'm having to work too hard to make my point from which I'm inferring that you feel it therefore must not be a very good point.

I'm not going to change my mind about Koivu, and I'm not asking you to change yours.

I'd say we've spun this one out as far as we can, yes?

Yeah, no need to go on. Thank you for the debate. I know people here appreciate your posts whenever you come around.

What I've been saying is that you criticisms end up carrying you too far. Instead of just expressing the opinion that he should be on the second line (which I don't necessarily disagree with, depending on the situation), you end up making him sound like he has no chemistry with players and has massive attitude issues and poor leadership. That, to me, describes my general experience when reading Minnesota opinion, although they don't usually go as far as you do.

The debate started with me disagreeing that he's overrated. I still don't see how that could possibly be the case.

I also think the media would like to see local boy Parise wear the C. If Yeo appears protective of Koivu sometimes (I don't know if that's the case), it's a coach protecting his player and defending his lineup decisions, which is what every coach does. Mikko reminds me of Darryl Sutter in the sense that certain hardass personalities just aren't popular with the media types.

[calumniate]

Holy smokes I didn't realise Koivu had a 6.75 mill cap hit.

Now that I've said that, he'll score on us tonight. Sorry boys

[nmhen]

@Henry Fool

All good. I respect your opinion, and appreciate the ability to have a civil debate with you.

The (hopefully vocal minority of) Wild fans who are just ridiculously provincial when it comes to hockey drive me crazy. I grew up there, and participated in the state-wide love of hockey. I'll put Minnesotans' love of hockey against any other state in the country. But, uh...that's not saying much.

Every Minnesotan in the NHL, or with a reasonable shot at the NHL, is not the best player in the NHL. Talk about obvious. But there are fans out there who really talk like they'd prefer the Wild was 100% Minnesota boys. And that we'd win the Cup, if not every year, then most years if that were the case. It's absurd.

I think the local fans drive the Parise/captaincy discussion more than the media does. Russo and Graff, the beat writer from the other paper, don't bang that drum really at all. But you're right that there are members of the local media who are not hockey-centric who do buy into the All-Minnesota-All-The-Time mentality, which is disappointing to me personally. We already lost one hockey team, you'd think we'd be sensitive to strategies that would kill another one.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by nmhen

@Henry Fool

All good. I respect your opinion, and appreciate the ability to have a civil debate with you.

The (hopefully vocal minority of) Wild fans who are just ridiculously provincial when it comes to hockey drive me crazy. I grew up there, and participated in the state-wide love of hockey. I'll put Minnesotans' love of hockey against any other state in the country. But, uh...that's not saying much.

Every Minnesotan in the NHL, or with a reasonable shot at the NHL, is not the best player in the NHL. Talk about obvious. But there are fans out there who really talk like they'd prefer the Wild was 100% Minnesota boys. And that we'd win the Cup, if not every year, then most years if that were the case. It's absurd.

I think the local fans drive the Parise/captaincy discussion more than the media does. Russo and Graff, the beat writer from the other paper, don't bang that drum really at all. But you're right that there are members of the local media who are not hockey-centric who do buy into the All-Minnesota-All-The-Time mentality, which is disappointing to me personally. We already lost one hockey team, you'd think we'd be sensitive to strategies that would kill another one.

Obviously my knowledge of the Minnesota media is infinitely shallower than yours.

I disagree that Koivu doesn't mesh with Parise, one of the players on your list, but it could be positive that they're separated. I actually think they play really well together, in fact too well: the problem is that they kind of make the grinding style work rather well which is attractive to Yeo in short term but isn't sustainable in the long term. In short, eventually they run out of steam and it's a style that's too easily countered in a playoff series.

Partly this is a team-wide issue. The one constant I've observed that the Wild get too little for the amount of effort they put in. And it fits all too well with with how both Koivu and Parise play. Parise creates a lot of chances with his effort but he also needs tons of chances to score.

I notice that Koivu has only 3 fewer points in 2 fewer games than Parise, so there must not have been any big change in Parise's production in Koivu's absence. However, having him play with Granlund avoids the trap of putting the two-way center with the grinding-hustling winger.

[flamesfan1297]

Originally Posted by Scoutski

Damn... McGrattan's wife is stunning, he's killin' it.

Dude, your luck mcgrattan didn't punch you right through your computer screen

[btimbit]

Roger Millions ‏@RogMillions 28m
Commissioner Gary Bettman in the house tonight..#Flames #Wild. If he's available we will try and speak to him during telecast on SN West.

[hwy19man]

Centre Ice channels for:
Monday, March
Calgary at Minnesota, 1800h Mountain
Confirmed Flames feed in red

Shaw Cable 350 SD and HD
Shaw Direct 472 SD 485 HD--Classic lineup
Shaw Direct 421 SD 434 HD--Advance lineup

Bell - 427 SD 1452 HD
Telus Sat - same as Bell
Telus Optik - TBA

Rogers - Same as Eastlink
Source Cable - 454, 460 SD 482 HD (HDSP 11 and 17)
Eastlink - 454, 460 SD 494 HD
Cogeco - 454, 460 SD 484 HD

Westman - NA***
MTS - 832 SD 1832 HD
Novus - 472 SD 482 HD
Northwestel - NA***
Videotron - NA***


USA
Indemand - Game 4 SD Game HD4
Directv - 771 SD 771-1 HD
Dish - 889 SD 9546 HD Hopper channel 475-05

Sirius Radio--Internet 925
XM Radio--Internet 925
SXM Radio--Internet 925

[FlameZilla]

Rob Kerr: Comb-over, hair-piece or real hair?

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

Rob Kerr: Comb-over, hair-piece or real hair?

All three.