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Old 02-22-2014, 08:28 PM   #41
jayswin
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Does it makes me an ####### that I'm sick of hearing "grow the game" and that I really don't care anymore if more people watch it or not?
Doesn't make you #######, it's just an odd thing to say. If you love hockey, you'd want it to grow, no?
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Old 02-22-2014, 08:40 PM   #42
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Keep NHL players in the Olympics and continue to have the World Championships. This grows the game all over the world, especially in the USA.

Relocate Florida and Phoenix to Quebec City and Hamilton. Those are dying franchises and they don't make the game look good.

Do not continue to expand until more teams are making money. This will help not dilute the talent level in the NHL and force profit-making teams to cough up more money.

Keep fighting in the league.

Slow down the pace of outdoor games but continue to have them.

Have more 24/7-type shows and show the world the inside of NHL franchises.
No this doesn't. Teams like Anaheim, Dallas, Colorado etc., that create minor hockey programs (or high school programs) grow the game. Since Anaheim started their programs and support the sport has grown 3-4 times what it was a few years ago. I just came back from Southern California and they had no hockey coverage on the Olympic channels - none. The new fans are coming from the grass roots programs.
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Old 02-22-2014, 08:56 PM   #43
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personally i would slash the 82 game regular season down to 50/60 games, giving a more intense and meaningful but shorter NHL season.
This will allow more time for international games or tournies to happen.

I don't at all buy that hockey is only a club sport, you could make a far stronger case that football is like that - yet you have intense Euros, world cups and even the qualifications are important!
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Old 02-22-2014, 09:39 PM   #44
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personally i would slash the 82 game regular season down to 50/60 games, giving a more intense and meaningful but shorter NHL season.
This will allow more time for international games or tournies to happen.

I don't at all buy that hockey is only a club sport, you could make a far stronger case that football is like that - yet you have intense Euros, world cups and even the qualifications are important!
only if you have $500 ticket prices for those 30 home dates.
The clubs have much more power than the IIHF.
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Old 02-22-2014, 10:19 PM   #45
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yea i agree ticket prices would probably go up which would suck but so would the quality. Its hardly cheap now tho...
To go back to football, the premier league does what it wants and has so much more power than the FA - yet international football goes on with players still going (ignoring friendlies). Doesnt stop certain managers complaining about it tho!
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Old 02-22-2014, 10:29 PM   #46
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yea i agree ticket prices would probably go up which would suck but so would the quality. Its hardly cheap now tho...
To go back to football, the premier league does what it wants and has so much more power than the FA - yet international football goes on with players still going (ignoring friendlies). Doesnt stop certain managers complaining about it tho!

The premier league doesn't just do what it wants, it has to oblige by the FA and FIFA. FIFA determines the international calendar dates, the premier league has to schedule around it. They have to schedule around UEFA and Euro qualifying.

But the main difference is money. Euros and World Cup are money tournaments. Millions go to the winner and Millions are given out in compensation to clubs who send the most players to the tournament and there is insurance in case of injury. If England wins this summers World Cup, the FA gets 35 million. That can go into youth development, into clubs and into prize money for things like the FA Cup. What's Hockey Canada getting tomorrow?

If this were football, The Islanders would get some money for sending Tavares and some more money for his injury. The Islanders still lose a player and it sucks but at least they have something back.
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Old 02-22-2014, 11:24 PM   #47
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to be completely honest, i'm with "nik" i don't really care about hockey growing globally as a sport (ie. across europe/asia/etc).

I do care about the NHL growing, as a healthy league, should hopefully result in the best fan experience (the NFL is the cream of the crop north american sports league).

I'm in favour of more of a grass roots approach in growing the game. It is still looked at as a "rich, white kid" sport, especially in the states. If it can get over that barrier, it would be huge in turning the sport into a mainstream sport in the states.

Ice time cost aside, i would assume the difference in equipment costs isn't as dramatic when compared to football?
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:32 AM   #48
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to be completely honest, i'm with "nik" i don't really care about hockey growing globally as a sport (ie. across europe/asia/etc).

I do care about the NHL growing, as a healthy league, should hopefully result in the best fan experience (the NFL is the cream of the crop north american sports league).

I'm in favour of more of a grass roots approach in growing the game. It is still looked at as a "rich, white kid" sport, especially in the states. If it can get over that barrier, it would be huge in turning the sport into a mainstream sport in the states.

Ice time cost aside, i would assume the difference in equipment costs isn't as dramatic when compared to football?
All you need is a ball for a group of kids to play a game of flag/touch football. For a simple game of street hockey you still need 2 nets and sticks for everyone. Another big difference is how the leagues are setup. In the US youth football is primarily organized by schools which pay for the equipment, while hockey is done in private leagues where the parents have to pay for everything. If we could get more players opting to go the NCAA route, get hockey programs in high schools across North America and stop relying on the CHL as the NHL feeder program it would go a long way to making the game more accessible
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Old 02-23-2014, 02:10 AM   #49
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Hockey is expensive, soccer is not.
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Old 02-23-2014, 04:47 AM   #50
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Hockey is expensive, soccer is not.
another reason to bring back wood sticks
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Old 02-23-2014, 09:42 AM   #51
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The problem is that hockey is a winter sport. You need ice and cold weather! You can't have kids in the middle of Africa skating on a pond playing hockey!
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Old 02-23-2014, 11:55 AM   #52
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I think this whole Backstrom situation is a negative for the NHL going to the Olympics. Casual fans will see he tested positive without looking into the situation to find out why he tested positive. This helps create an image that hockey and the NHL are not clean, which will detract from the game IMO.
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Old 02-23-2014, 11:57 AM   #53
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Hockey is expensive, soccer is not.

Soccer is ####, hockey is not.
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:03 PM   #54
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Soccer is ####, hockey is not.
As much as I agree with you, it is a matter of opinion and sometimes as a child you don't have alot of choice. I know I didn't.

I played soccer as a kid because it was the only sport my parents would pay for. Finally when I reached Jr. High I convinced them baseball wasn't much more expensive.
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:13 PM   #55
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Be careful what you wish for. Growing the game may not be good for small market Canadian franchises.
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:15 PM   #56
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Be careful what you wish for. Growing the game may not be good for small market Canadian franchises.

Explain
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Old 02-23-2014, 03:06 PM   #57
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The NHL should should stop making public threats to withdraw every four years, since this kind of squabbling only makes everybody look bad, and it threatens the build of tradition. The NHL should also give the players a few more days of rest before the tournament, to prevent injuries and to make the tournament better.

The olympics achieve the biggest thing for growth: giving the next tier of countries something to play for. Austria, Switzerland and Slovenia aren't close to being gold medalists, but just being a part of the experience is important for the players and the fans. Getting to play against the best also gives the players from those countries important experience. They need to learn firsthand what the level is they need to reach to be the best, you don't learn that from TV.

(The Canadian juniors and to a lesser extent players from other top hockey countries have the benefit of learning to play with the very best each age group has to offer in the world. If you're from a small hockey country, international tournaments is the place to find your peers.)

I feel that the NHL taking part in the olympics has already given the World Championships a boost, which is a good thing in itself. Canadian and US players seem to be more interested in the tournament. Even as a second tier tournament, it's still fun and good enough as an annual thing.

Here's a random new tournament idea:

I was thinking of these summit series -type of tournaments, and thought of it like this: how about you make it several simultaneous challenge serieses?

Here's for example how it could work: The top ranked country (by some system) picks their opponent, then the next not-picked country until you have like 8 pairs. Here's a complete fantasy example, just to give an idea of what it could be like:

Canada (#1) picks US (#4), because of the best ratings.
Sweden (#2) picks Finland (#3) because a) rivalry b) most ranking points
Russia (#5) picks Czech (#6) because they're a rival they feel they can beat, and they need to win someone after the olympics.
Slovakia (#7) picks Slovenia (#11) because a) all the biggest countries are gone, and they want to prove they're better than Slovenia despite losing to them in the last tournament.
Switzerland (#8) picks Germany (#13) because that's the best TV ratings for them.
Latvia (#9) picks Austria (#10) because they feel it's a nice level of opposition.
Norway (#12) picks Denmark (#14) because it's a nice rivalry.
Belarus (the next World Championship host) picks Kazakstan (#16) because they want to practice for the upcoming tournament.

You do this before the NHL season starts on non-Olympic years. Each series is played in both countries involved. Obviusly each year you do the picking process again.

I don't really expect Canadians to follow the Belarus-Kazakstan matchup, but that's not really the point. The point is more to get the Belarussians to follow the Canada-US matchup, by essentially making them and everybody else involved feel like they're a part of the same tournament. A country like Belarus or Denmark is a good place to grow the game, (Canada isn't, it's saturated.).

Even if the hypothetical Danish hockey fans don't feel involved in the other serieses, the idea is to create a matchup that can showcase their best players in games that fit their talent level against the best players of a rival. This makes it much easier to build good stories that people follow. Not changing the players, the countries and the stakes involved between every game makes it much easier for a casual fan to to start following the game. Hockey is not an easy game to get.

This would also create the intense series matchups that many hockey fans feel are an essential part of hockey. Like summit serieses, but regular, something that could over time become a part of hockey lore and part of sports tradition. It would also be something that even the most hardcore old-school Canadian could say is a real matchup. This is important for the general prestige.

It would also give the smaller hockey countries a chance to get a big win against a hated rival, often in front of a home crowd, without having to go get beaten by Russia 6-0 the next day. Stuff like this is great for the casual sports fan. It would help create some good buzz around the national team. (I think this is again something that international soccer does well; there's enough separation between games, so the fans are not just constantly looking forward, but can spend a long time debating that one game that everyone saw.)

I would also imagine that when the local hockey associations fight for budget money to build junior systems, "we want this much to solidly beat Norway every time in the Challenge series" could be a better argument than "we want this to beat Kazakstan for the 14th spot in the World Championships, and maybe win one game there". Goals like that are achievable goals that are interesting outside of that sport.

Essentially: serieses like this would help create interesting, achievable goals, while making the challenge thing a regular event would help build tradition.

Sorry for the long post, and sorry if this is all nonsense to you

Thoughts?

EDIT: Basicly; I think if there would be a series system like this, you could even have an OOT thread on the CP that mentions who won, Austria or Latvia. Which is sort of part of the point

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Old 02-23-2014, 03:09 PM   #58
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No this doesn't. Teams like Anaheim, Dallas, Colorado etc., that create minor hockey programs (or high school programs) grow the game. Since Anaheim started their programs and support the sport has grown 3-4 times what it was a few years ago. I just came back from Southern California and they had no hockey coverage on the Olympic channels - none. The new fans are coming from the grass roots programs.
I never said that the Olympics was the only way to grow the game in the US. Obviously the grassroots programs do help.

I lived in California for 4 years, and I was there during the Vancouver Olympics. I have a number of American friends and colleagues who have followed the NHL more closely since those Olympics.
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Old 02-23-2014, 04:22 PM   #59
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Itse: that's all fine and good but a) who pays for it and b) who compensates the teams? What if a Tavares is injured even before the season starts?

And what is the goal of the tournament? just to win one series? The Swiss want to play the big 6, not Germany. When does that happen?

The problem with international hockey (to the NHLs point of view) is it needs a desired result. If the US don't win, it doesn't matter in the US. I'm sure you and most Finns watched Canada-Sweden today. Americans did not. I'm not sure Americans even watched their own team play for bronze yesterday.
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Old 02-23-2014, 04:31 PM   #60
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Skimmed a lot of the later responses but I think the question is too vague. What is the exact goal? To grow it in the States? In Europe? In countries that don't currently play or have very good teams?

Certainly we don't need to grow it in Canada.

A lot of these ideas are good, but I don't think you can really pick any of them till you narrow down your actual goal because different ideas will work better or worse in different countries, and depending on what you actually want to accomplish. I would argue, that you can't grow it all evenly anyway. You'll want to work on one area than move to another as you build momentum.
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