Westboro To Picket Memorial For Murdered 10 Year Old Girl Local To Me

[photon]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Yeah I know, I know, I am just trying to understand those I hate.

There's an interesting book I read written by someone who was in Westboro (Banished it's called). I think they honestly think they're one of if not the last remaining remnant of true Christianity left on earth, and people who've abandoned their connection to humanity for their faith or ideology will do anything they think their god is telling them to. (That's the fundamental flaw of faith as an epistemology IMO).

They think they're the only ones left to spread God's truth, but reading the book it's very much like any other cult.

[killer_carlson]

This thread is an interesting example of how WBC can steal the focus away from the tragedy this poor family is facing. Not that I blame people in the thread, rather it shows how selfish the WBC members are.

I'm glad you are going to protect this family. Good for you and I hope your support helps give them a moment of reprieve.

[jofillips]

plus you could easily play the religous game against them - they're the definition of blasphemers or heretics and as such should be burnt on a pyre!

[CaptainCrunch]

Its weird that when you read up on the Westboro baptist church that the old man was on the forefront of fighting for race equality and taking down the Jim Crow laws, the guy was ardent anti racist, he sued Ronald Reagan for appointing a ambassador to the vatican for going against the seperation of church and state.

But the guy has always been a religious nutbar, and his anti-gay stance is just plain disgusting.

I'm almost positive that the guy shot a bad batch of heroin and went crazy.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by photon

I'm sure Westboro chooses their slogans carefully (as pointed out they're a family of lawyers), they don't have signs advocating stoning of homosexuals for example.

No they just want leathal injection!




What bugs me the most is they use kids to deliver their ######ed messages which breeds hate for future generations, they should be jailed and pissed on.

[JonDuke]

I love that this house is across the street from the church...

[ernie]

Certainly a horrendous story in these parts this week. I encourage everyone who may be in the area to get out and form the shield. I also want to encourage parents to get their kids into self defense classes. We don't know if it would have helped here but it could help. Many of the Springfield-joplin area martial arts schools are putting on free clinics over the next few weeks for kids. Find out where and when they are and pass it along (I know of a joplin area one on March 1 by Universal Sport Karate, SW Missouri Bank Community center. Four 45 minute sessions from 2-6 pm). Not that there are many on this board from the area but there are a few so pass it along.

[StrykerSteve]

How this "church" is even legally permitted to operate is beyond me.

Disgusting.

RIP little angel.

[handgroen]

why can't god burn down their church because he hates fags? that would be pretty sweet

[evman150]

Originally Posted by photon

I think you have to take the bad with the good when it comes to free speech, and any limits on it have to be very seriously thought about by lots of brains all far above my pay grade.

You really don't. At least not to this extreme. These guys are not allowed in Canada, and their hatred would most certainly not be condoned.

Free speech is not the slippery slope people make it out to be.

Citing "freedom of speech" for what these people do is like citing "freedom of movement" for running a red light.

[krynski]

Please let us know how this goes, BBF. I hope there is sufficient resistance and deterrence to WBC.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by evman150

You really don't. At least not to this extreme. These guys are not allowed in Canada, and their hatred would most certainly not be condoned.

Free speech is not the slippery slope people make it out to be.

Citing "freedom of speech" for what these people do is like citing "freedom of movement" for running a red light.

I'm not an expert on United States Constitutional Law, however it appears that the Freedom of Speech in the Bill of Rights is very Very VERY broad.

Unless there is a very specific law, legislation or regulation against what is being said, then your right to say it is protected by the first amendment. This is why Fox News gets away with distorting, misreporting and lying to the American people, there is no specific law against it, only an FCC policy, and policy is not legally enforceable. (http://caselaw.findlaw.com/fl-distri...l/1310807.html)

In Canada Section 1 of the Charter of Rights protects against abuse of the rights guaranteed by the charter (hence hate speech, even if it is not violent, is not allowed).

As Canadians it may be easy to sit back and say that the US should have a similar clause, but in reality, the Bill of Rights was ratified in 1791, the Charter of Rights was ratified in 1982, so we had 191 years to watch how the US Bill of Rights held up in court, how it was used & argued, and 191 years to find ways to try and improve upon it.

If the US Bill of Rights or Constitution were to be re-written today I'd imagine it would be a very different document (but still hold the same principles).

[PIMking]

What pisses me off more is that since they're a church they dont pay taxes to spew this garbage

[Turner]

Originally Posted by Dion

The Obama administration will not label Westboro Baptist Church a hate group, saying it's not the government's practice to apply the designation.



http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/0...omment-page-1/

Obama need to grow a pair. Worst president ever.

[Red Ice Player]

Originally Posted by Turner

Obama need to grow a pair. Worst president ever.

Care to expand on that? I can't wait.

Edit: I take it back. I really don't want to hear from this poster. BBF, sorry to derail your thread. I love what you folks are going to do.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Red Ice Player

Care to expand on that? I can't wait.

You might want to poke around his posts in the USA v Fin game thread......that will answer you question.

[photon]

Originally Posted by evman150

You really don't. At least not to this extreme. These guys are not allowed in Canada, and their hatred would most certainly not be condoned.

Free speech is not the slippery slope people make it out to be.

Citing "freedom of speech" for what these people do is like citing "freedom of movement" for running a red light.

I already mentioned that I understand there are and should be limitations on free speech, but there is a line where the restrictions on free speech become more harmful than the harms you are trying to prevent via those restrictions. Where that line is is the question, I was just saying I feel that that line is more towards the allowing for speech than some are suggesting, not that it's a slippery slope.

I get that these guys wouldn't be able to say what they say in Canada, I'm just not convinced that that's the way it should be. I'm not super confident either way though.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by photon

I already mentioned that I understand there are and should be limitations on free speech, but there is a line where the restrictions on free speech become more harmful than the harms you are trying to prevent via those restrictions. Where that line is is the question, I was just saying I feel that that line is more towards the allowing for speech than some are suggesting, not that it's a slippery slope.

I get that these guys wouldn't be able to say what they say in Canada, I'm just not convinced that that's the way it should be. I'm not super confident either way though.

When the message is hate driven and hate focused I think you can draws the line. But that is just me.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

When the message is hate driven and hate focused I think you can draws the line. But that is just me.

But what is hate? And to whom?

Everyone hates Kessler and the Canucks. Their fan base are ######bags that you just want to punch in the face. They are a bunch of sissies, they deserve everything bad that happens to them and they are the worst thing to happen to the league.

The above statement is something that could conceivably be said around the Saddledome.

Now let's change the nouns.

Everyone hates gays and the LGBTQ community. They are ######bags that you just want to punch in the face. They are a bunch of sissies, they deserve everything bad that happens to them and they are the worst thing to happen to society.

I think we can all agree the second statement it way out of line.

Yet it's the same statement but the target is different.

If one is acceptable and the other isn't, what's the real difference? If we can argue the second statement is wrong and hateful (which it is) then objectively we can argue the first statement is as well.

Hence the slippery slope that photon is alluding to.

Now are fans of a sports team a fair comparator group to the LGBTQ community? I'd argue not, but others may argue any hate against any group is wrong. It's wrong to hate, period. Therefore hate speech would extend to any person or group of people.

All or nothing.


Now I personally believe in degree. But that doesn't mean society will, does or should.

[evman150]

You're recklessly conflating two senses of hate.

I hate canned tuna. I hate Ryan Kesler. I hate "insert group here".

The second sense is much, much closer to the first sense than the last.